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As president of Demos, Heather McGhee oversaw some of the best research we have on what message *actually* works to flip voters to the left. She joins us this week to talk about how the race/class “divide” is misunderstood, the new Yale study claiming that talking about race makes progressive policies less appealing, and what messaging is most effective on persuadable voters. Stay until the end of the episode, where Virgil and I reflect on whether Elizabeth Warren lost because of her gender, why Obama was able to win while Black, and the political weaponization of the word “racist” — a prescient conversation recorded before Tim Scott’s response to Biden’s Congressional Address sparked an ongoing debate about whether America is, in fact, racist.

Find Heather’s book The Sum of Us from Penguin Random House.

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Produced by Ben Dalton (@wbend).

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).

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