My life is conversations. But every now and then, I get to have a very special one.

I will not forget this conversation with Brené Brown, the brilliant researcher and social work scholar and podcaster.

It’s about persuasion, the unsung role of emotion in politics, the roiling sentiments just below the surface of our democratic decay, and how America can be saved.

Take a listen. And stop by ThePersuadersBook.com if you want to go deeper — including a new free guide to changing minds in a time of fracture and fury.

This post was originally published on The.Ink.