LAURA FLANDERS & FRIENDS

THE “POLITIVIST” MOMENT: CORI BUSH & KAT ABUGHAZALEH ON WINNING WITHOUT SELLING OUT

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LAURA FLANDERS: In what was widely viewed as a rebuke of the Trump administration’s actions and the GOP’s policies in this second Trump term, Democrats won races across the country November 4, winning governor seats in Virginia and New Jersey, retaining State Supreme Court justices in Pennsylvania, and even breaking the GOP supermajority in the Mississippi Senate. And in New York City, a record-breaking million plus voters cast their ballots for 34-year-old Democratic socialist Zohran Mamdani, an anti-Zionist Muslim, South Asian immigrant, whom Republicans, as well as corporate Democrats, had done their absolute best to vilify. In his victory speech, Mayor-elect Mamdani had this to say:

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And while we cast our ballots alone, we chose hope together. Hope over tyranny, hope over big money and small ideas, hope over despair. We won because New Yorkers allowed themselves to hope that the impossible could be made possible. And we won because we insisted that no longer would politics be something that is done to us. Now it is something that we do.

LAURA FLANDERS: So how are you feeling as voters, onlookers, perhaps people considering running for office yourself? To reflect on the implications of this moment, we have invited two courageous women who are doing politics in a big way. Cori Bush is fighting to retake the congressional seat she won in 2021, Missouri’s First, that covers the city of St. Louis. She’ll be up against incumbent Wesley Bell, whose successful campaign against her in 2024 was heavily funded by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, a pro-Zionist political action committee. Also with us is Kat Abughazaleh, a 26-year-old Palestinian American, former journalist and political commentator who is making waves in a crowded field of Democrats seeking to represent Illinois’ Ninth, the Chicago area district formerly held by progressive Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky. So what does this moment mean for our politics, the parties, the 2026 midterms for us? Let’s get at it. Welcome both. So glad to have you with us. Starting with you, Cori, Congresswoman, I should say, just off the top of your head, how are you feeling as we start this conversation today?

CORI BUSH: I am overwhelmed. One year ago, if you would’ve told me we would be here this quickly, I would’ve questioned it. But the tide has turned in so many ways. Our government has to reckon with the fact that the people want self-determination for all people, the people want humanity, the people want dignity, We want to see our legislators, our elected officials, our politicians, our leaders actually represent the people.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: You know, when Zohran won his primary, I posted something like, “This is a huge night for progressive grassroots candidates with ethnic last names.” We saw Democrats sweep across the country. And I think part of that is if you, as in the Republican Party, are filled with a bunch of weird guys that are pushing universally unpopular policies and terrorizing communities, people don’t like that and they want to vote against it.

LAURA FLANDERS: Well, let’s talk a bit more about your campaign, Kat, and we’ll come back to you, Congresswoman. How are you running differently? And then I want to find out why you decided to run in the first place. I read somewhere that you started out life as a Republican.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: I did. There are a lot of things in politics that I don’t like, especially when it comes to money. I saw how much money we spent in 2024 just for Donald Trump to win and, frankly, it made me nauseous. I thought about how many food banks could be stocked, how many clinics could be funded. And the fact that a lot of people have lost faith in our political system, from every political stripe, is because politicians are about words and not actions. And so we are using our resources to not only reach voters, but materially improve their lives. We do backpack drives, food drives. Our campaign office doubles as a mutual aid hub. We’re doing everything we can to make sure everyone in our community has whistles as they patrol and keep an eye out for ICE. We are genuinely making a change on the ground. And, win or lose, this campaign is a net benefit to this community, and I think it’s going to help us win. We’re also communicating transparently. I speak without a script pretty much all the time. And I haven’t taken a cent from billionaires, Republican-funded PACs or corporate PACs, unlike my opponents.

LAURA FLANDERS: Well, we’ll come back to more about how you got into this, but I do want to come to the Congresswoman. You are signing up for another probably brutal campaign. Why? What’s giving you the drive to do this?

CORI BUSH: First of all, because I’ve been in Congress and I know the change that can happen when someone not only works for their district, but when someone fights for the district, that is the time we’re in right now. We need proven leadership in my district because we’ve had it. I have heard from my community, you know, their frustrations with the lack of leadership. I’ve heard just their despair as it relates to what happens tomorrow. Because this manufactured chaos that is coming down from the Trump administration is not being dealt with. It is not being met with the urgency and with the fire that is coming down on us. The destruction is happening every single day right before our eyes and on top of us, and we’re saying, “Wait ’till 2026 because things will get better.” People are living it right now.

LAURA FLANDERS: Tell us a bit about your background, Congresswoman.

CORI BUSH: Sure. I am the daughter of a, you know, someone who’s been in politics for most of my life, in municipal politics. My dad was just the one to help each one. My dad would help the person who he saw was unhoused, who slept, you know, on the ground. You know, he’s the one that was going to make sure that person got to safety and got a meal and got a shower. That was my example. But I’m a registered nurse by trade. I am a mother, a wife. I’m someone who lived unhoused, lived in a car with my two children, moving it around the city of St. Louis hoping that I wouldn’t fall asleep too long in the night and would wake up in one of my children, you know, had passed in the night because it, you know, got too cold in the car. You know, I’ve been on EBT, you know, EBT at the time. I’ve been on SNAP, I’ve been on WIC, you know? I have been through so many of things that people are fighting right now and struggling with. That’s why I speak up. That’s why I stand up the way that I am. And so like you said, Laura, I’m coming back again, you know, even though I know that this could be a brutal campaign. But what’s really, really brutal is having to go through all of these, all of the policy violence, or going through what people go through every single day because no one is speaking up to the point to where they’re flipping the tables over and making change. I’m that one. For this particular moment, I am the one for this seat.

LAURA FLANDERS: We’re talking about backgrounds. Kat, yours is a little different. And there are Daughters of the Revolution, I think, in your history, at least part of it. Where’d you come from? Who are you? And how did you go from being, I think, a teenage Republican to being who you are now?

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: Yes, my mother is, you know, a white Texan. Her family’s been in Texas for, I believe I’m seventh-generation Texan on her side. And my father is a Palestinian immigrant. He was born stateless. His father came here for college to Chicago actually and then brought his family over later. This is where my dad, you know, learned English. And then my dad settled down in Texas for college, and after meeting my mom. And my mother’s family was really active in Republican politics. So I grew up in a very Reagan Republican family. But in hindsight, a lot of the values that my parents lived by didn’t really match up with the party that they ascribed to. And I think that’s a story that resonates with a lot of Americans. You know, my last name’s Abughazaleh. Growing up in post-9/11 Texas, there were a lot of things that didn’t match up to this party that we said we were a part of. And when I was about 15, we moved to Tucson, Arizona, which is much less segregated by income compared to Dallas where I grew up, and I suddenly had friends who were a lot smarter than me, who were unbelievably talented, that couldn’t afford to go to college even with a full ride because they couldn’t afford the extra costs or they had to help take care of their family. And I was like, “Wait, maybe Ronald Reagan isn’t right about everything.” And by the time the 2016 election rolled around, my parents voted for Hillary. I couldn’t vote, I was 17. So I did voter registration drives, but I wanted to devote my life to do radicalization and progressive politics. So that’s what I studied in school, that’s what I started my career doing, covering the Right for Media Matters. My specialty was Tucker Carlson and communicating these narratives. And people like Rupert Murdoch have spent billions of dollars to create a system that keeps so many in a bubble of misinformation. That’s why I have devoted my career to deradicalizing folks and to try to cut through in a way that makes people listen, that makes them start asking those questions I did.

LAURA FLANDERS: What kind of conversation would you like to have with each other? Because you have experiences you said. Kat’s just coming into this kind of maelstrom of campaigning. You’re both connected, I think, by this long-term vision of what’s wrong in this country and clear vision of what could be different.

CORI BUSH: I admire the fact that you have made a decision to run on your values. You know, that your principles are first, your community, you know, is, you know, that’s your priority, but without biting your tongue to make it happen. You know, I applaud that. I started a PAC called Politivist because I call myself a politivist, it’s the politician and the activist. When I entered Congress, I was told, “You can’t be an activist. You have to just be the politician.” I was like, “No, no, I’m bringing the fire, the moxie, the courage. I’m bringing all of that to Congress. And I’m going to be the activist while I’m still the politician.” So the power of the push and the power of the pen and the purse, I was marrying those. And you are a politivist too. You’re the activist. You’re a true activist, the true activist.

LAURA FLANDERS: Kat, I wanted to ask you, invite you to share what maybe Cori Bush’s decision to run again means to you.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: Yeah, I mean, everything you just said means so much. I truly can’t stress that enough. Running for office is really hard, which, Congresswoman, you know, and it’s even harder when you stand by your values. Like, there have been so many times during this campaign where someone or a group is offering a lot of money, frankly, race-changing amounts of money, to stand for values that I don’t represent. And it’s because of people like you, Congressman Bowman, Representative Ocasio-Cortez, this entire group of modern progressives that, like, walked so we could run right now, that gave me the strength to say no. And I was asked by someone, would I rather lose with my values than win and owe a few favors, and I was like, “Absolutely the former.” It’s really hard. This entire system is built to make it almost impossible for people who are not wealthy to run. And I really admire what you and other progressives around the country have been doing.

LAURA FLANDERS: We don’t talk enough about the class divide in Congress and how many congresspeople are millionaires and how few have any of the sort of experience that people are going through in this country right now, the vast majority of people. How could we fix this?

CORI BUSH: Absolutely. Getting the big money out of politics is the thing that could make all of the difference because there are so many amazing candidates that I have supported and some that I never even had the chance to learn about. They’re doing great work in their communities, but they cannot raise the money. They don’t have the connections to be able to break through. I have candidates even now saying to me, “Can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do that just to help me to get some, help me get my name out?” And it’s simply because they know that the other person in the race, the incumbent oftentimes, has this war chest. When I ran for Congress, for the House seat the very first time, like you said, Kat, so someone came to me and said, “Hey, we have, you know, oh, these six figures for you. This will change your race right here at the end. If you take this money, you’ll win. Yeah, you might not like where it’s coming from, but if you take it, you’ll win.” I told them no. If that’s how I have to win, you know, I’ll just have to go again.

LAURA FLANDERS: Well, that’s one of the aspects of the New York City mayor’s race that has gotten too little attention in my view. On the one hand we had ranked choice voting, which made a big difference, and in the other we have public financing of elections in that mayor’s race. And I think that has a lot to do with the emergence of this candidate and the engagement of people in his race. Kat, what about this question of the indictment that you’re facing? I mean, as if things weren’t hard enough in Chicago, you’re in the middle of a campaign as that city is under siege from ICE agents and who knows who else they are. Where does that indictment, how does that affect your ability to run, does it? And maybe tell our audience just a little bit where it came from, what happened.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: Yeah, so I have been protesting at the Broadview Processing Center, which is where ICE headquarters its operations in Chicago. And this is a processing center, it’s not a detention facility. So people aren’t supposed to be held for more than 12 hours. They are being held for days or weeks, being denied water, they don’t have beds, hot meals, access to hygienic facilities. We’re now hearing reports of people going into cardiac arrest, being carried out on stretchers, being given fake translators so they’ll sign their own deportations. It’s abhorrent. And so I have been protesting there alongside hundreds of Chicagoans. I was recently indicted by Trump’s DOJ along with five other people, and it’s a blatantly political prosecution. And this case is going to determine if this administration can criminalize free speech, free association, the right to protest. It’s a lot to have on top of a campaign. I have covered the Right for my career as a journalist, so this wasn’t surprising. It was maybe a little surprising to see my name on the indictment, especially so soon. But I know the exact playbook that these people are working from. This is what cowards do. They’re afraid, so they tried to terrorize us with guns and tear gas, pepper balls, abducting people from daycares, and it didn’t work. Chicago’s still standing up. And so now they’re using the federal legal system to try to shut us up this time, and it’s not going to work this time either.

LAURA FLANDERS: Let’s talk about the Democratic Party. You are running, Kat, to take the seat formerly held by Jan Schakowsky, pretty good progressive Democrat but whose retirement was announced early this year. You actually announced your candidacy before she announced her retirement. And then we are looking at a moment of leadership change inside the Democratic Party with the announcement from Nancy Pelosi, former speaker, leader whip, that she would not seek another term after this one, which would be her 40th year in office. Coming to you, Congresswoman, you’ve been there and you’ve seen how power works inside the party and part of it is practical, some of it is, you know, the pragmatics of power. I’d like to ask you your thoughts on the crossroads that the party is at now and whether you think there’s real chance of the sort of change you’re seeking.

CORI BUSH: There has to be a chance. And I think that we are it, those of us that are running right now that have made the decision, you know, to, you know, be anti-genocide, to not take, you know, the corporate Super PAC money, to stand up, you know, for our communities in a way that we are not seeing some of the folks in who are seated in Congress, you know, who are Democrats, do. That’s how we’re going to do it. I was there, Laura. I was able to see how six people, I’m talking about Squad , how six people, plus, you know, here and there, different, you know, of our colleagues, how we could make change simply by continuing to push, push, push. We didn’t get to stop everything. We didn’t get to bring everything to the floor that we wanted, but we made change. We were able to become, you know, a force within the Congress. And it was just six people. What we were missing was 6 more, 12 more, you know, 30 more to really be able to make that change. And so what I’m hoping is that for those that are running right now, first of all, be true to who you are. Let me say this, don’t say that you’re going to be, you’re going to stand, you’re going to fight, and all of that when you get to Congress and then when you get there you change up on us, because that hurts this movement. That hurts who we are trying to, you know, who we’re trying to be for this country. It hurts that. So don’t do it. Be who you are now.

LAURA FLANDERS: There is a sense of engagement. I’ve not seen anything like it. There’s also a sense of, well, scarcity and pain as people are losing their SNAP, their food stamp benefits, their ability to feed their families, seeing electricity prices soaring, seeing us backsliding on environmental legislation, all of this makes it hard for people to engage in the process, just a matter of time and energy. How do you balance it yourselves and how are your supporters balancing those needs and desires and pressures in this moment? Kat.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: It’s really easy to feel helpless, and that’s what authoritarians want you to feel because you don’t fight then. Right now, Trump is burning the forest. But when it’s done burning, when we put out that fire, we get to plant new seeds. And they’re going to be better, and bigger, and more impactful, more people-focused than ever before. I always encourage people, you know, your change looks different depending on who you are. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, and loves and passions. It might be running for office, is how you make change. It might be checking on your neighbor. It might be volunteering at a food bank or an animal shelter. It might be just cleaning up your block. It might be wearing a whistle and taking a walk every day and keeping an eye out for unmarked vans. But whatever it is, we all have to do our part. And right now I’m seeing people do that, actually come together and say enough is enough. And that is what’s given me strength more than anything.

LAURA FLANDERS: What would you add to that, Congresswoman?

CORI BUSH: I mean, Kat said it all. I mean, it’s community. We’re seeing the community stand up. You know, the way St. Louis came together after the tornado last May, and it was the community that empowered one another. It was the community that took care of one another while our local government was trying to figure it out. We were already on the ground, you know, meeting the needs of people who had now issues, and that’s the thing. You know, people are saying, “But how will you help me now? How will you protect my wallet now? How will you help increase what’s coming into my wallet now?” Because when we look at over 300,000 Black women have been, you know, removed from the federal workforce, and second to that is Black men, when we look at how many people are being detained and arrested and removed, that’s a human being that was, you know, helping to build this society or working for a better tomorrow for all of us and you remove them. So you’re destabilizing our community. So for us, we will take care, like Kat said, we’ll take care of our communities. We are the ones, we’re looking at what you need now and we’re working to deliver that for you now, but not without an eye towards what happens tomorrow.

LAURA FLANDERS: We always end these shows by asking our guests the following question, and that is about the future. Like, what do you think is the story that the future will tell of this moment? Kat Abughazaleh, let’s start with you.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: It was really dark, but it’s not anymore. And now we live in a world where people can afford housing, groceries, and healthcare, with money left over to save and spend; where we spend more on education than on bombs; where everyone has equal rights; and where we are still trying to make things even better than they are at this moment.

CORI BUSH: Because we are a leaderful movement, you can’t just take one of us out and then everything falls apart. Because we are leaderful, you know, what our children won’t have to go through is what Project 2025 is trying to bring on. So absolutely, I think Project 2025 wants to see Black folks back in chains, you know? I think Project 2025 would like to see a day where Jim Crow is back, you know? But we won’t go back there. So, you know, having that life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, making the flag actually what it’s supposed, what the flag symbolizes in the United States, what that American flag symbolizes making that the reality.

LAURA FLANDERS: I love it. Thank you both so much. I look forward to following both of your races and wish you a tremendous amount of good energy and moxie.

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: Thank you so much, Laura.

CORI BUSH: Yes, thank you, Laura.

LAURA FLANDERS: There’s an old protest sign I can’t stop thinking about these days. It read, “It will be a great day in America when our schools have all the money that they need and the Pentagon has to hold a bake sale to pay for a bomber.” Well, how about an aircraft carrier? Where I am, in a rural part of New York state, the radio is packed with appeals from food pantries who, after 40 days of government shutdown, are terrified they’ll run out of supplies for the poor before Thanksgiving. Congress is reopening and some safety net program funding will be restored. And that will be a huge relief to the recipients of SNAP benefits and others, but it does nothing to address the root problem of poverty and inequality in this country, not to mention our very skewed priorities. What we’re about to see next is the immoral spectacle of a Congress packed with millionaires debating what further cuts to make to programs for the poor in this country, even as they approve historically high military budgets which are right now paying for a dangerous-looking deployment in the Caribbean. One aircraft carrier, the Gerald Ford, the most recent and largest that is right now in the Gulf, cost $13 billion to build and will require an additional eight million or so per day to operate. That money, well, it could cover the ACA’s healthcare tax subsidies for tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans, and those SNAP benefits too. Donald Trump and his war secretary say their deployment is all about getting tough on crime. But who is getting tough on the crime of poverty in this country? And maybe more Congress members would care more about that problem if they had actually lived through that experience. You can get my full uncut conversation with today’s guests through subscribing to our podcast. All the information’s at the website. I’ve got a new Substack you might want to check out. In the meantime, stay kind, stay curious. For “Laura Flanders & Friends,” I’m Laura. Thanks for joining us.

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