The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.

Marc Steiner:

Welcome to the Marc Steiner Show here on The Real News. I’m Marc Steiner. It’s great to have you all with us once again. And we see these demonstrations taking place by the country, but more we see what’s happening with ICE and now the Border Patrol attacking people who are protecting immigrants, who are demonstrating against people being deported across the country. And one of the heaviest scenes is taking place in Chicago. And our guest today is someone who’s in the middle of it. Danaka Katovich is CODEPINK’s National Co-Director, and she is a leading voice against US military intervention, wherever that’s taken place and is one of the leading activists on these fronts. And you can hear more about her, read about her in Jacobins Salon Truth Out Common Dreams, many more places. And Danaka, welcome. Good to have you with this.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Marc Steiner:

So I want to jump right into this in terms of what’s happening with ICE and now the Border Patrol in Chicago. Describe for people listening to us, what exactly is happening because it sounds almost Orwellian in its scope in terms of the violence taking place against people in Chicago.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, I think it is gone in phases. So I’ll start from now and work my way backwards to when the raids first started and when ICE first got to Chicago for what’s been called by the Trump Administration Operation Midway Blitz. They’re going to war on the city of Chicago.

Marc Steiner:

Yeah, exactly right.

Danaka Katovich:

So recently, and this was last Friday, it was actually my first time having a interaction with ICE by myself because I was just walking home from the train station and I saw these two rental, they’re renting vans, basically ICE rolled up, ran out their vehicles and descended on these men who were washing windows at DePaul University by the philosophy departments asking for papers. And I reported it, I dealt with it in the moment, but when I went online and I was looking around, it was reported. ICE was basically everywhere on that area of the North side, Lakeview Lincoln Park, just rolling up to construction sites like active construction sites in people’s homes. So not just instances where they’re rolling up on laborers, waiting outside of Home Depot. That’s something we’ve been very familiar with and where we’ve been sending our rapid response teams too in the city to alert the laborers that ICE might be coming, but they’re just showing up where people are having construction done on their houses and taking people.

So that’s what it’s looked like in the last week. It’s been really escalated, that kind of thing. They’re working on a weekends, which they weren’t doing originally when this all started. I think one of the most dramatic scenes we’ve seen was the raid on the South Shore apartment building that a few weeks ago, and it was pretty widely reported, ICE descended on a, I think 130 or 150 unit apartment building on South Shore with Black Hawk helicopters, ran into the apartment building, knocking down people’s doors, detained nearly every single resident of that apartment building, separated them by race into moving trucks, zip tying children, zip tying their parents, waking them up. It was in the middle of the night, I think it happened at two or three in the morning. People were naked, they didn’t have clothes on, dragging them out at gunpoint. And there was a journalist that went into the building a couple days after the raid or the day after the raid, and she was reporting on complete door hinges being ripped off from people’s apartments. And I think they took 37 or 38 people from that apartment building, but nearly everyone was detained. And that was really sort of a violent, very violent instance of all of this

Marc Steiner:

Next question, which was they were arresting everyone, immigrants,

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah,

Marc Steiner:

Residents. You said zip tying children.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, they had tied people’s hands, ziptied all the people that they had taken out of the building. And these were citizens, non-citizens alike.

Marc Steiner:

And so talk about the response to that.

Danaka Katovich:

Naturally people have been really upset. And I think one thing that has been highlighted recently was the same journalist that I was talking about that went to the building the day after and was reporting on the damage done by ICE agents. She said something interesting. She said that she couldn’t tell what damage had occurred before or after the ice raid. And I think there’s been a large response here to, it’s predominantly a black neighborhood in Chicago, a community that has experienced historic disinvestment, and it was a dilapidated building owned by a slumlord who doesn’t take care of the building, doesn’t take care of the tenants. South Shore had a very high eviction rate in recent years. And so I think the thing people are talking about right now is why in the richest country in the history of the world supposedly, are we letting people live like this? And also the immigrants that were living in the building were, from my understanding from the buses that governor Greg Abbott was sending from Texas. Chicago had a large influx of migrants coming into the city from Greg Abbott’s busing program where he was just sending them

To New York, Chicago, et cetera. And when our shelters got overrun, a lot of black Chicagoans were upset. They were like, these resources are needed for us. And I think the South Shore apartment raid brought out a lot of solidarity, which was really good to see. But when the shelters were overrun because of Greg Abbott’s busing program, the city had defined other places to put people. And that apartment building that was raided by ICE was a place where the city was able to find housing for the people that Greg Abbott had sent to the city

Marc Steiner:

From what I’ve read was taking place in Chicago is there were almost 3000 people arrested by both the Border Patrol and ice, even more border patrol. I mean, the idea that they’ve militarized the border patrol, sending it into Chicago is a huge escalation of this threat against people around our country.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, absolutely. And the story I shared where I was interacting with immigration officials outside of DePaul actually was border patrol. So yeah, there’s been the obvious, more dramatic instances of these abductions that have taken place in Chicago that have been reported on. And there’s also some that haven’t been, but just to highlight, I’ll just do one is I took a man whose daughter, he’s the primary caretaker for his daughter, his daughter’s in grade school or actually high school age, I believe, who is a cancer patient. His daughter’s a cancer patient. He’s the primary caretaker for his daughter. And I just took him. And so the alderman of that ward, Matt Martin, who’s been working really hard on that case and trying to figure something out, but it’s situations where they’re abducting the only caretakers of children taking both parents when there’s kids here. And then the kids end up in DCSF fs,

Marc Steiner:

Which is social services.

Danaka Katovich:

And CTU has reported a decline in attendance at Chicago Public Schools because ICE is showing up at school pickups and drop-offs because they have information that these people that they’re looking for are going to be picking up their kids or dropping off their kids at school. So we’re having to send ice rapid response teams to elementary school pickup and drop-offs. One is resulted in a tear gassing. They tear gased near a school pickup. And a Logan Square family had their 2-year-old tear gassed. So they’re using tear gas. That’s a big thing. They tear gas near. It’s called RICO Freshs. It’s a grocery store in Logan Square. They threw teargas near the entrance of the grocery store. It’s been really horrible. And now a judge in Chicago is making Bino the lead person for Homeland Security in the operations here, go to court every single day. And the result seems to be him just making excuses for tear gas. He was in order not to use tear gas, and he just goes to court to make excuses for why it would be okay.

Marc Steiner:

And Bino being the head of ice.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah.

Marc Steiner:

Yes. And watching him and listening to what he’s been saying. I mean, it’s also almost like you’re watching the Gestapo in 1930s, Germany just dragging people away

Danaka Katovich:

And they’re masked. ICE is hiring almost to anyone. And I was talking to a friend about this yesterday.

Marc Steiner:

What do mean? What do you mean they’re hiring almost anyone?

Danaka Katovich:

They need to hire a ton of people to carry out what they’re doing. And it seems like there’s no sort of actual background checks going into it. No actual time for training. They’re just rolling people out on the street and coaxing people with these, it seems almost to me like the poverty draft, how they get people to join the military in the US is promising all this economic opportunity. They’re giving these prospective ice agents signing bonuses and promising student debt relief. And now with the government shutdown, it seems like these guys are just doing it for the love of the game almost, which is creepier, I suppose. But they’re masked. They run out of cars with tinted windows and they just grab people, citizen or not, and they’re asking for papers. It’s just really, really bleak. And I don’t think people outside of Chicago understand the scope of it. I feel like maybe they think we’re speaking in hyperbole about it, but what I saw is border patrol agents barreling out of their vans, rolling up on two men who were working at DePaul and asking for their papers to leave them alone. I think our mayor signed an ordinance and said ICE can’t wear masks, but they are still are.

Marc Steiner:

The mayor in Chicago seems to be speaking up though and standing up and trying to stand up to the ice. But how effective is that?

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, I think Brandon is actually doing a really good job. Mayor Johnson’s doing a really good job in at least the rhetoric part of things. And I think he’s trying to genuinely do what he can. But as far as civics go, the federal government has a lot more power than the city government and especially when Trump is trying to ignore judicial rulings and that kind of thing. There’s not a ton Brandon can do, but I actually have a critique of the governor who, we haven’t actually talked about this, but the Broadview Detention facility, have you heard about

Marc Steiner:

What’s going on there? No, tell us.

Danaka Katovich:

Broadview is just west of Chicago. It’s not Chicago, it’s a village, but they have a ice detention facility in Broadview, and it’s been the site of these mass protests, actually someone running for Congress, Kat Abbu Gale in Illinois, ninth District running for Jankowski seat, just caught a federal charge yesterday for protesting outside the Broadview facility ICE agents. So originally it was protests outside of Broadview dealing mostly with ICE agents themselves, shooting rubber bullets, shooting pepper spray. A member of Code Pink Chicago got shot in the face at one of the earlier protests outside of Broadview tear gas getting into residence houses. It’s not just affecting the protesters. And then Governor Pritzker ordered the state police to Broadview to protect protesters

Marc Steiner:

And what happened.

Danaka Katovich:

But what it resulted is what the state police just beating up people, beating up the protestors and doing the same thing that ICE was doing. And I get to a certain extent, I think in that moment that’s when Trump was talking about sending the National Guard to Chicago over people hurting ISA agents and unrest around the ICE operations. And I think maybe the logic was if we send the state police to Broadview, we can hold together what might blow up to the point where Trump would want to send the National Guard, but he’s going to do that anyway. And I think what it result in is more harm on protestors. They put a fence that was, I think deemed unconstitutional and had to be taken down. So I think Brandon is handling it as best as he can, as civics will allow him to deal with this. But I think he’s done a good job establishing the ICE free zones to the extent that ICE will not ignore laws, which they are notorious for doing. So I think Brandon’s doing an okay job. I think Governor Pritzker is doing okay except for the state and the state police thing as well, but to the extent that which they’re able.

Marc Steiner:

So I’m curious about a couple of things here. Like with Code Pink and the peace movement in general. I mean, what’s been the organizings response to what’s happening in Chicago and places like Portland and has it been effective? How are you building the resistance and what is it doing?

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, so I’ll first talk about the ICE rapid response teams and then I’ll talk about Code Bank more broadly. What our strategy has been for talking and mobilizing around this issue, but inside of cities, I can only speak to Chicago’s, but the ICE rapid response teams have been very, very effective. They’re organized by neighborhood. So if you’re doing, it’s called ICE Watch. If you’re doing ICE watch, you’re in the group chat, you’re alerted by the people who are watching ICE leave its facilities to know their plates, the description of their cars, how many are rolling together, and people are placed around the city where laborers might be by school pickup and drop offs that are deemed high risk. Also, outside of churches on Sundays now has been a big issue. ICE has been harassing people outside of Sunday services. So the people in the group chats are alerted when ICE will be around.

People are on constant watch for ice. So if we catch wind for example, that ICE is headed towards the north side, coming potentially towards Home Depot, which they frequent to harass laborers there, we’re able to tell the laborers ahead of time, you should probably go home and go inside your houses where they cannot enter without a warrant. It’s been good in preventing people from being taken if we’re able to get to them ahead of time. And also when someone is taken by ice, if we have the rapid response teams there, we’re able to get their name, their birthdate and alert ICER who’s helping with the legal aspect of things. So that’s what it looks like in the moment doing rapid response around the city.

Marc Steiner:

In the work that you’re doing up there, there’s a connection between the border of security and national security and the stuff you’re working on and how they’re interwoven and what you’ve been talking about exposing. Talk a bit about that.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, absolutely. So code pink as a whole, we’ve had a campaign around Latin America for a long time and also just code pink as a whole. Being an anti-war organization, I think we acknowledge a few things. One being that war fuels migration, but also in the case of Latin America, sanctions, blockades and that sort of thing. A lot of the migrants that they’re taking in Chicago are from Venezuela and the US has imposed suffocating sanctions on Venezuela for a very, very long time in hopes of to suffocate the economy so much that people in these countries will rise up and overthrow their governments. Notably, that has not happened in Cuba. It’s also not happened in Venezuela. The US has tried to do coups in Venezuela to overthrow the government, which causes economic and social instability. And if you are suffocating a country’s economy, so much to the point people feel like they cannot take care of their kids to the point where they feel hopeless, they had no future where they live, they will go to a place that has economic opportunity.

I mean, wouldn’t you if you had kids and you felt like you needed to take care of them and it was not going to happen where you were living? I think it’s a very human thing. And the US not valuing other country’s sovereignty for their own interests, which in Venezuela is oil amongst other things, because Venezuela has huge oil reserves. The uss need to control everything around the world leads to the kind migration crisis in the US that Trump claims to hate so much. And it’s very scapegoating. I think people in the US are struggling economically already, and there’s someone to point to blame to. I mean, people who are on the side and in favor of the ice raids say things like, why should these people get social services when I can’t afford to feed my kids? And the anger is right, it’s just directed at the wrong people. We should be directing our anger at the millionaires and billionaires who are running our country and making sure there’s austerity for us, but not the Pentagon. And all of this violence that we enact on Venezuela and other countries is funded through the Pentagon, which gets about a trillion dollars every single year. And they act like we’re spending too much money on food stamps. But they give $1 trillion to the Pentagon budget every year to carry out all this violence.

Marc Steiner:

I’m curious how you and others organize around that and what you do. I mean, when you look at what’s happening in Congress, the Democrats are voting just like the Republicans in terms of funding the Pentagon to the hilt and policing our borders and arresting and sending immigrants out. There’s a real interconnection here.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, absolutely. So there’s a few tactics we use at Code Pink, and I think our main one is education. There’s a huge knowledge gap in the United States around Pentagon spending and why that harms us and why militarism is not the answer to our problems. We have real human problems. People are upset for the right reasons, but we have to direct that at the right people because it’s the system as a whole that is harming us. It’s not migrants, it’s not Iran, it’s not Venice, it’s not Cuba. It just sounds silly once you understand these things. So our main focus is education. If you see videos of our co-founder, Madea Benjamin in Congress, bird Doning representatives, the result of that has been people realizing that the politicians in DC do not represent them. They’re paid off by lobbyists. Madea does a great job exposing that, and that’s something that we do every day.

And the result has been, we’ve started 50 new chapters of Code Pink in the last two years alone. And pretty much everyone that I talk to, I help facilitate our chapters around the Midwest. So Fargo, North Dakota, we have three chapters in North Dakota, which is really fun, Missouri, Indiana, these places where we haven’t had large presences before of this kind of organization, we’re growing really, really rapidly. And they are doing the really hard work of educating their communities on the issue of war spending, Pentagon spending, they’ve primarily been focused on Gaza for the last two years, obviously, but that our endless spigot for weapons for Israel is something that they talk about quite often. And then it gets eventually tied into the Pentagon spending as a whole. So they’ve done really, really hard work and pretty much everyone who has started a code pink chapter that I’ve talked to has been, I’ve asked them what compels you to join this movement and start an education campaign where you live? And they’ve said, well, I saw that little old lady in DC yelling, yelling at members of Congress. And it just woke me up that these people do not care about us, and if we want to change something, we have to build this movement out in a meaningful way.

Marc Steiner:

What are you experiencing in Code Pink in terms of organizing with the empathy or support for immigrants in this country in ice? Go ahead.

Danaka Katovich:

Well, I’m comparing this to initially when the genocide and gossip began, people were very hostile to us doing this education work, handing out flyers at farmer’s markets. They were very, very hostile to us. And I think still buying into a lot of the propaganda that was justifying the genocide. Now it’s definitely softened, but I do still get harassed if I’m doing Palestine stuff. Pretty much always, it’ll always happen with at least one person. But with ice, I think at least here I can only speak to my experience here.

I think people have been really receptive to the solidarity and have been able to kind of understand that there’s a bigger problems at play, and this isn’t solving anything. But I mean the Trump administration is kind of doing that to themselves because ICE is beating up, tear guessing and arresting American citizens. So it’s not just happening to migrants. I think people who are US citizens are experiencing this violence firsthand, even if they’re not the targets of it. And I think it’s something that they’re not used to is masked men in military uniforms. They’re pretty much always in camo and have guns stripped to their side. They did a thing where they were marching down Michigan Avenue

Marc Steiner:

Ice.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, they had a bunch of dudes, including Bino, he was there as well, all in camo military outfits, marching down Michigan Avenue, dozens of them harassing people. And I think that scene enough was, I think really jarring for people. I think Americans,

Marc Steiner:

You’re saying that ice under Bino who runs Chicago for them, who strikes me as a very serious neofascist had his men and women marching down the street in Camo Armed,

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah,

Marc Steiner:

In the middle of the street in Chicago.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, walking down the sidewalk, this was probably the week of October 4th, if I had to guess. October 4th or the week before is when that happened. They also got on boats and were driving up and down the Chicago River, which seemed just purely performative. If you’re not going to detain anyone from a boat on the Chicago River, you can’t even see people from it. It’s nuts.

Marc Steiner:

So what was the response to the people on the ground when they saw Uniformed ice officers marching down the street armed?

Danaka Katovich:

I was really proud. The response was people immediately, I think once all the rapid response teams were made aware of the situation, everyone flocked downtown. There was a bunch of people filming them, a bunch of people yelling at them, which I was talking to a friend yesterday. She was like, yeah, when you yell at the cops, they just stand there stone faced. But if you yell at ice agents who are barely trained to do anything, they snap back at you and yell at you, and they get angry and agitated. They’re not really emotionally regulated people, which causes a bunch of other issues. So people flogged down, they were filming them, and then the governor had a response. Mayor Brandon Johnson had a response, and I think they had left about after a couple hours, if I’m remembering correctly.

Marc Steiner:

So I’m very curious in all the work that you do through Code Pink and organizing and facing down ice and dealing with this kind of neofascist threat in our own country, what do you think is the response to that in terms of organizing, fighting back, bringing people into the struggle against this?

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, so a lot of the educational program we put on, I think one clear example I can give is Code Pink along with Palestinian Feminist Collective have been having mutual aid distributions. So our most recent one was around the beginning of the school year, we had a school supply drive where families could come pick up stuff. And at that event we had educational material. We weren’t handing out on the plight of children who are affected by Warren Militarism, who can’t go to school, for example. So I think we have events that are really low threshold, low barrier of entry for people. You’re not going to be condescended to if you don’t know or say the right things, you’re going to be treated with dignity and respect, and you’re going to be engaged in a respectful conversation, even if you might disagree with us when you get there.

And I think we’ve had a lot of recruitment via those events because people are inspired by what Code Pink is doing. And I think people are also recognizing the moment that we’re in. And actually Mayor Johnson did a interview on breakthrough News last week or two weeks ago where he was asked, what do you tell people when they say they’re afraid to resist this slide into fascism, that they’re scared that there’s a risk? And Brandon and Mayor Johnson said, I think people need to realize that we are going to have to take bigger risks right now to actually challenge our country slide into fascism because it’s only going to get worse down the line if we don’t speak out now, it’s going to be impossible to speak out later. And I think there have been people we’ve interacted with in our movement building activities where people are freaked out and they are scared, especially with Trump designated Antifa as a terrorist organization. People are freaked out about what the Trump administration is going to do. They are freaked out about masked agents who are paid by the Trump administration walking around our city. They are scared about the threat of sending the National Guard to Chicago. But I think Brandon’s right, if we don’t do something right now, it’s going to be impossible to do later.

Marc Steiner:

So in terms of the resistance to this rising right wing takeover of the country and rounding up immigrants and throwing them out, but even more in terms of what’s happening in our communities, I’d like to hear more about how you organize against it to build that resistance. What do you do to kind of stand up to that? Because people think you need a huge military to stop what’s going on around the world. They think that it’s security issues rounding up immigrants. So I mean, I’m curious how you organize and how you build that resistance and build a movement

Danaka Katovich:

Quality over quantity at this very moment

When people are highly paranoid and scared, rightfully so about government repression, building our trust and we say organized at the speed of trust. So I think doing smaller things together until you can do a bigger thing together. Like you said, people think that we need millions of people out on the streets to save the world or stop fascism. But I think there are things that we can be doing every day that build this network of trust out in a meaningful way so we can do something bigger eventually. And also, it’s effective to slow down the process. It’s effective to get in the way of ICE vehicles taking people into the detention center. It’s effective in slowing it down by getting in front of ice vehicles leaving to go harass people and detain people. If you have privilege in this society, if you are a US citizen, if you’re not afraid of ICE taking you, I think there are things that you can do to slow down the process, like joining these rapid response teams, for example. I think slowing it down is effective and you don’t need very many people to do it.

Marc Steiner:

No, that’s good. That’s the kind of organizing you need if you want to save people’s lives and stand up. And I’m curious, a little bit of time, we have left, Chicago is one of the center points of the attacks by ICE at this moment in this country

And Portland as well. And on a larger scale, what we’re facing with elections and other things coming up, how will Code Pink respond to that? What would your tactics be? You can’t tell us, I don’t want to tell us everything you have to do them, but the power of the right is to mention in this country as we see in terms of who gets elected. So I’m curious about how Code Pink, which has been around for a long time, has always been one of the leading resistance movements in this country against neo fascism and racism and war. How you respond to what we’re facing at this moment to stop the right wing thrust of Trump from taking over everything?

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, it’s a big question. Yes, that’s not so. Code Bank doesn’t work in elections, which I think gives us a lot of freedom to keep working. We have, I think the privilege because we can’t work on elections. We have the privilege of staying focused. I think elections come around and they really, really distract really important facets of the movement and take them away from grassroots work that we’re doing. So luckily, code Pink can stay involved and keep focused on one thing is trying to stop a US war on Venezuela is one of our main focuses, and I think we’ll continue to be through election season, is trying to stop this machine that is very good at manufacturing consent. But luckily, I think we have some things on our side if we’re doing a power analysis, is that I think a lot of Americans, probably most at this point, if I had to guess based on recent polls are very against the US starting New Wars, even members of Trump’s party, very against starting New Wars that the US would have to pay for. So I think exploiting those dissidents in Trump’s camp and raising up the fact that Americans won’t support this is going to be critical and calling out when things are done in our name anyway, and try to help people not get distracted by shiny politicians that have no backbone once they get into Congress.

Marc Steiner:

I like that. I’m going to use that line. So I have to ask you this one thing. What has happened to the thousands of people who have been arrested in Chicago?

Danaka Katovich:

It’s hard to know for sure. So one thing that’s happened is a lot of them are taken to broad view, which is that facility I told you about earlier,

ICE claims, it is not a detention center because people are only processed there. So they don’t have a cafeteria, they don’t have a consistent way to feed people. It’s not an adequate detention center by any means. People have come out of there telling absolute horror stories and ice claims they don’t need all of those things because it’s not a place people are staying for long periods of time. But we’ve heard stories of people staying there for several days up to a week and probably longer than a week, but I’m not sure off the top of my head. So a lot of people are taking to Broadview processed and then deported.

From what I know, a lot of people are being sent back to Venezuela. But then we have the situation where the Trump administration is also insisting on sending people to these third party countries. And so like I said, a lot of people’s kids are becoming wards of the state because both of their parents have deported or self deported, and it’s hard to track Ice lies a lot, and they also don’t have a very transparent system. So we’re really relying on a lot of these immigration groups and immigration lawyers in the city to try and find some transparency. But especially in Broadview, it’s been very closed door, very non-transparent. And that’s been one of the demands of the protest is to have some transparency about what’s happening in Broadview. But they’re building a bunch of new detention centers, so we know that there’s some plan to either expand immigration raids, which is hard to imagine literally everywhere, happening all the time, or keeping people in the US is the only thing I can imagine in those detention facilities being built at such a massive rate.

Marc Steiner:

Well, I mean, we clearly have a struggle in our hands, and Chicago has always been at the forefront, and your generation is taking this step up to make this fight to protect people, protect our country, protect this democracy, and stop people from harassing, beating up and sending innocent immigrants out of the country. So I want to thank you for taking time today and thank you for your work and let’s stay in touch. The more you do, the more we want to report on it and talk about it together.

Danaka Katovich:

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was great talking with you.

Marc Steiner:

Take care.

Once again, I want to thank Code Pink co-director Danaka Katovich for joining us today and thank her and Code Pink for standing up to the Neofascist Forces of Ice and the Border Patrol. And thanks to Cameron Grino who are running their program today, audio editor Stephen Frank for working his magic producer Roset Sewali for all her work in research that makes our program sound good and tireless, Kayla Rivara for making it all work behind the scenes and everyone here throwing news for making this show possible. So please let me know what you thought about, what you heard today, what you’d like us to cover. Just write to me at ss@therealnews.com and I’ll get right back to you. So for the crew here at The Real News, I’m Marc Steiner. Stay involved. Keep listening, and take care.