On June 6, thousands of veterans, union members, VA hospital nurses, elected officials, and more gathered on the National Mall in Washington D.C. at the “Unite for Veterans, Unite for America rally” to protest the Trump administration’s attacks on veteran jobs, benefits, and healthcare. In this on-the-ground edition of Working People, we report from Friday’s rally and speak with veterans and VA nurses about how Trump’s policies are affecting them now and how to fix the longstanding issues with the VA.

Speakers:

• Peter Pocock, Vietnam War veteran (Navy) and retired union organizer
• Everett Kelley, national president of the American Federation of Government Employees
• Terri Henry, Air Force veteran
• Ellen Barfield, Army veteran and national vice president of Veterans for Peace
• Lindsay Church, executive director and co-founder of Minority Veterans of America
• Lelaina Brandt, veteran (National Guard), 2SLGBTQIA+ advocate, and part-time illustrator and graphic designer.
• Eric Farmer, Navy submarine veteran
• Irma Westmoreland,  registered VA nurse in Augusta, GA, secretary-treasurer of National Nurses United, chair of National Nurses United Organizing Committee/NNU-VA
• Andrea Johnson, registered VA nurse in San Diego, CA, medical surgical unit and the NNOC/NNU director of VA Medical Center- San Diego
• Justin Wooden, registered VA nurse in the intensive care unit (ICU) at James A. Haley Veterans’ Hospital in Tampa, FL
• Cecil E. Roberts, Vietnam War veteran (Army) and president of the United Mine Workers of America

Additional links/info:

• Tim Balk & Helene Cooper, The New York Times, “Military parade in Capital on Trump’s birthday could cost $45 million, officials say”
• Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press, “Transgender troops face a deadline and a difficult decision: Stay or go?”
• Eric Umansky & Vernal Coleman, ProPublica, “Internal VA emails reveal how Trump cuts jeopardize veterans’ care, including to ‘life-saving cancer trials’”
• Maximillian Alvarez, Working People / The Real News Network, “Trump cuts leave VA hospital nurses and veteran patients in a crisis”

Featured Music:

• Jules Taylor, “Working People” Theme Song

Credits:

• Audio Post-Production: Jules Taylor

Transcript

The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Alright. Welcome everyone to another on-the-ground edition of Working People, a podcast about the lives, jobs, dreams, and struggles of the working class Today. Working People is a proud member of the Labor Radio Podcast Network and is brought to you in partnership within these Times Magazine and the Real News Network. The show is produced by Jules Taylor and made possible by the support of listeners like you. My name is Maximillian Alvarez and I am here on the National Mall in Washington, DC at the Unite for Veterans Unite for America rally, where thousands of veterans from all military branches and age groups, union members, VA hospital nurses, elected officials, and more have gathered to send a message to the Trump administration. This is a critical follow-up episode to our recent interview with VA nurses and national nurses, United Union reps, where we talked about the devastating impact that President Trump’s cuts to federal agencies and attacks on federal workers are causing for VA healthcare workers and the veteran patients that they serve as national nurses.

United describes in their press release about today’s rally on Friday, June 6th, the anniversary of D-Day, dozens of registered nurses from National Nurses Organizing Committee slash National Nurses United will join Senator Tammy Duckworth, veterans federal workers, military families and allies in Washington DC for the Unite for Veterans, unite for America rally organized by the Unite for Veterans Coalition. This rally is modeled after the 1932 Bonus Armies march on Washington DC and will spotlight attacks on veteran benefits, call out attempts to privatize the VA and rally the veteran community to defend the institutions that serve them. So I am here on the ground talking to folks about why they’re here, why it’s important, and what message they want to send to the administration and to their fellow workers around the country.

Peter Pocock:

I’m Peter Pocock. I’m out on the mall here in DC with a whole bunch of other veterans. I’m an old timer. I’m pushing 80. I’ll be 80 this year. I was in the Vietnam era and happily for me and intentionally for me, I was in the Navy because you were more likely to avoid bullets in the Navy. Yeah, we’re out here on the mall today because the Veterans Administration, which takes care of a lot of us, myself included, I’m 90% disabled and we can go into that later, but we’re here because certain parties who are in the government are really trying to cut the hell out of what we have supposedly earned by our service over the years. Yeah, Gary from the podium, we’re here to fight back. First of all, there’s a whole lot of vets that actually are losing their jobs, particularly government jobs.

We got a preference. That was one of our benefits of being in the service. We got a little bit of a preference for jobs coming out and especi people who have been working for the government for 10, 20, 30 years who are being basically told, we don’t need you anymore. Thank you very much. Actually, no, thank you very much. Let’s just go away. Not happy about that. I tend to do only family friendly language and interviews, but there’s a whole lot of words I could use to describe what the Trump administration is trying to do to labor. That’s something that the right wing has been after for what decades, maybe more, and I’ve been fighting. I was in the labor movement my whole working life after the Navy and been fighting it that whole time. Even in retirement. Keep on showing up is the way that you win every time.

We’re not going to storm the capitol. We’re not going to surround the White House and take prisoners and things like that. What we’re going to do is keep on showing up everywhere in the country, every opportunity we have, every chance to have a conversation with somebody about it, talk to ’em about what’s going on, talk to ’em about the fact that people’s livelihoods are being taken away. Things that people have worked for their whole lives are being taken away. That’s not just veterans, that people with jobs. You got a job, you want somebody to take it away from you for no good reason except to send a little more money to some folks that have no need of more money. Thank you very much. I came back in 1970 to an environment that was not particularly friendly to veterans

And I kept showing up. I kept telling people I never held it against somebody that they thought that I was at fault for this war. I was against the war myself. Well, another thing that has got me out here is I’m 90% disabled according to the Veteran’s Administration, and it’s because I’ve got Parkinson’s disease. See, there’s what I got is Parkinson’s Disease, and it’s generally attributed to the fact that I was exposed through Agent Orange during my service. My bet is that basically any of the folks that were in Southeast Asia in the late sixties and the early seventies all have been exposed to Agent Orange and many of them will if they haven’t already be displaying all kinds of symptoms because of it. In my case, Parkinson’s.

I’m lucky that it didn’t show up until late so that I’m still, I’m going to make it to 80. Anyhow, a lot of my people have, the VA takes care of people like me. The VA takes care of people who are in wheelchairs because of their service for laying flat on their backs in a hospital bed because of their service, and that’s where they’re going to be. The VA’s taking care of them. That’s not waste, that’s not fraud, that’s not abuse. That’s what they have earned is that care and that’s what everybody in this whole country earns just by being citizens is care. How come we are not taking care of our people? We had all kinds of very interesting things going on in the Navy, in the army. I got friends that were doing some really good anti-war stuff that endangered them. So when I came back, that’s what I started doing and I mean doing it ever since. I wasn’t in a labor movement at the beginning. I was in left wing politics, anti-war politics, and from there being in the labor movement was just a natural. As soon as I got the kind of a job that actually had that kind of stuff going on in it, we don’t need to go into it too much, but I was a real hippie organizer in Politico. I was not in a position to be in anything but the IWW. So yeah, but I spent 30 years in the labor movement and I’m still with it.

Everett Kelley:

My name is Everett Kelley. I’m a proud Army veteran and I have the pleasure as the National President of the American Federation of Government Employees A FGE. First and foremost, I want to thank the Union Veteran Council for inviting me to speak and for putting on this necessary undue event. Now I want to welcome all of you who came here today from out of town. Your commitment is aspiring and I want to thank you for being here today. We’re here to unite on behalf of all veterans and to bring awareness and attention to this unprecedented and un-American attack on veterans jobs, benefits, healthcare and union rights. What do you say? Well, it doesn’t matter what branch you serve in, right? We’ve all made a huge sacrifice for our country and all of you are my family. Now though we all come from different backgrounds and different races have different religious beliefs and political views.

We all have similar stories as veterans. My story starts in good water, Alabama, where at 18 years old I joined the United States Army and went on to serve in the Army Reserve for another eight years. After my three year tour, like many of you, after I my military services, I wanted to continue to serve my country. So I became a federal employee working at Anderson Army Depot with my fellow veterans while we continued supporting the mission. You see, just because the job change doesn’t mean your service is complete. Our mission has not changed. Our mission is protect and to serve, to support and defend, and that has not changed. But now what has changed, however, is the government’s promise to be there for us when we get home that changed the promise to care for our families, our caregivers, and our survivors. For years, politicians on both sides of the aisle have campaigned on their support of veterans, but once they get in the office, they cut our benefits on the fund, our services and take every opportunity to privatize our healthcare.

What do you say about that? No, and guess what? Brothers and sisters, we are tired of it. Veterans are tired of being celebrated on Veterans Day remembered on Memorial Day and forgotten about after election day. What do you say about that? Are you tired? We’re tired of being thankful. Our service in the public and stabbed in our back in the private. We are tired now. This S ring no true than today. In January, the VA presented employees, what a fuck in the road. Wow. They encouraged members to end federal services in February, VA recklessly terminated more than 1500 probationary employees resulted in chaos and confusion within the department. In March, the VA announced plan to cut 83,000 jobs for no rhyme or reason whatsoever under disguise of efficiency. I say it’s not efficiency, it’s fraud and a FG been fighting sensely because we know what the big ass will do, don’t we?

Right? And if you don’t know what the big enough plan for Americans veterans is, let me share it with you. The big enough plans for Americans, veterans, it’s a privatized veteran healthcare. In order to make themselves wealthier, they want to make a quick buck offer the sacrifices of the pain and the scars of all those of us who have served this country. They want to take away our VA medical centers claiming that private healthcare is better. However, study after study showed that vegetable prayer to get their care to be VA because it was created for us. Now, the VA is a place my brothers and sisters to go too far camaraderie and for exchanging stories where we are treated with respect and honor because nearly 30% of the employees are veterans too, and they understand who we are. They understand the sacrifices that we’ve made.

They understand the specialties that’s needed. They understand a person that has PTSD. They know it’s not a sham. They know it’s for real. The VA plays for veterans by veterans and for veterans. However, these master reorganization plans that stand before us today is the targeted attack on veterans job, on healthcare, on benefits and union rights. The layoff plans aren’t just figments of our imagination. They are here. We’ve already seen thousands of employees being fired, but brothers and sisters, lemme tell you this, I got to leave you, but before I go, I want you to know that you have doctors, nurses, housekeepers, es, chiropractors, pharmacists, social worker, benefit specialists, police officers, janitors, engineers, painters, electricians, psychiatrists, cooks, greeters at the front door at the va.

Terri Henry:

I’m Terri Henry. I live in Alexandria, Virginia. I’m here in Washington DC today to protest the Trump administration’s treatment of veterans. I am a veteran. I’m married to a Vietnam veteran. My father is a veteran. My brother is a veteran. I believe in veterans. My husband and I had nowhere to go after high school graduation. We weren’t born with a silver spoon like Donald Trump. So we joined the military and his two brothers joined as well, and we got our educations through the va. So we are all college educated people who were able to improve our lives by virtue of our military service. That would not have been a path open to me. Only marriage and children would’ve been open to me. I had no education and no way to earn a living. The military taught me skills and I used those skills and I believe in America.

The other thing that happened is my husband got agent orange cancer for his Vietnam service. So we rely on the VA for his cancer treatment. If it had not been for the va, I tell you, I would’ve had just a complete breakdown. But they were wonderful. They took him in, they gave him chemo. We never had to worry about a bill. Every American that gets cancer in America has to worry about how they’re going to pay for their treatments in the military. We never worried about that. We went to the doctor when we needed to go to the doctor and they gave us what we needed and they promised us that that care would continue after we left the military. And in my husband’s case it has. But now in the Trump administration that care is threatened, these veterans are threatened. We’ve got new veterans, young veterans, Afghanistan, veterans, Iraqi veterans, Vietnam veterans still alive.

We need that care. You promised that care. Donald Trump is a draft dodger 1968. He refused to take the cough. In fact, he got his father to pay for a bone spurs excuse. That’s not courage. That’s not courage. And that man is insisting that we the veterans or the active duty military march in front of him like puppets and he is a draft dodger and a felon. The irony, the insult, it is such an insult to the American military to make them parade for him. This is not Hollywood. This is real life. And those federal workers that you’re un employing, they actually take a military member out of a combat seat. Why? Because the federal workers do the things behind the scenes that allow the military to deploy forward. Every federal worker you fire, you’re taking someone out of combat and you should know that you’re harming the mission and they don’t have time to do your petty tasks.

Like this parade on the, what is it, 14th of June, which by the way, that parade is not a birthday parade for Donald Trump. It’s not a birthday parade for the army. What it is is a show of force, a show of force as was conducted in 1939 at another birthday parade in another nation where that dictator showed the world, his military and what they had to be afraid of. That’s what this parade is about. He’s using the US army to threaten the rest of the world with our military might. We’re very proud of our military. We have a great military, but they are already overt, tasked and now he’s cutting them as is Pete Heg said. Now Trump’s priority is real estate. What he wants to do is put Gaza puts the French Riviera in Gaza. He wants to own Greenland. All he sees when he sees other nations is real estate opportunities, opportunities to make money.

That is not what the government does. The government is here for. We the people, they only exist to serve. We the people just as a church passes a collection plate. The government passes the tax plate, we put the money in with the intent that’ll be spent on our needs, not on his. And there’s quite the difference between the two. So I say to you, don’t believe Donald Trump, he is lying every day. He has a network that does that Cox News. He’s cutting down on journalism like N-P-R-P-B-S so that you will never hear the truth. And now voice of America as well. So this is a very dangerous time in our nation and it is time for us to stand up and say, no, no, Donald Trump, we see you. We’ve seen this before, but it’s not going to happen here in America.

Ellen Barfield:

My name’s Ellen Barfield. I’m a nearly 30-year-old Baltimore aunt originally from, did a lot of my life in Texas and I did four years in the Army, 77, 81. I’m the co-founder of the Baltimore Chapter of Veterans for Peace, and I’m back on the national board.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well, it’s so great to chat you and yeah, Baltimore out here representing, we are literally sitting on the National Mall right now at the Unite for Veterans Unite for America rally. I wanted to just ask if you could say a little more about yourself, about why you’re out here and what the message today really is.

Ellen Barfield:

Well, the main messages stop trashing veterans and stop taking away our benefits and firing. So many of us disproportionately veterans are employed in the federal government. They do get a little bit of a point for being veterans and they come from that kind of mindset. So they want to keep serving, if you will. So the threats to our VA healthcare and the firings of so many veterans, those have got to be stopped and reversed. And that’s why we’re here now. A lot of the folks here are a good bit more politically conservative than veterans for peaces, but that’s okay. We have to get together to defend the promises this country made to its veterans to take care of us in exchange for our possibly being sacrificed. I personally think war is the enemy and humanity better unlearn war. It’s going to finish us. So I don’t glorify wars, but it is something nations have done for a long time. It’s had militaries. And part of the deal is you potentially risk your life in exchange for benefits afterward. That’s the promise. And they’re taking that away and we got to hang together here. Even if we don’t politically agree to say hell no, we’re not going to let you do that.

Maximillian Alvarez:

And can I just ask, as a veteran yourself as an organizer with Veterans for Peace, have we been fulfilling that promise to our veterans? And I guess that’s a two part question. How have we been treating our veterans in the aggregate before 2025 and what are these new attacks from the Trump administration doing to our veterans on top of that?

Ellen Barfield:

Yeah, thank you. Because that’s exactly right. The VA has essentially never been fully funded. It was already down about 60 or 70,000 staff around the country before Trump even got back into office. And now there’s threats of about 85 or 90,000 more cuts and they’re talking about, oh, we’ll keep the essentials doctors and nurses, excuse me, if the floor is a wash and trash and the toilet won’t flush and all of the staff is important, it’s not just the professionals. So give me a damn break.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Brian and I literally just interviewed multiple VA nurses to say like, look, when you cut our support staff, who do you think has to pick up the work us? Which we can’t tend to

Ellen Barfield:

Our patients take care of the patients, exactly. We got to have medical tests and we got to have clean bathrooms and all of that. I wear this shirt the same, our VA shirt when I go to the VA and talk to some of the staff. And some of them are very grateful to see it and some of them are kind of puzzled amazingly, this one guy who’s been doing the check-in for me, the blood pressure and whatnot before I see my endocrinologist have a thyroid condition. And this was before Trump got back in, but that’s exactly what I was talking to him about. The staff is way, way down across the nation. I’m sure y’all are tight here. And he said, yeah, as a matter of fact, you’re right, we are. So it was interesting that I was helping him understand, and you’re absolutely right, it was far from perfect for a long, long time, but it was a lot better than we’re looking at and being fearing right now. So yeah, it’s chipping away at something that was already far from the strength that needed to be.

Maximillian Alvarez:

And I guess, I know there’s a broad question, but we got a lot of folks who listen to the show who are not veterans, right? They’re workers union and non-union. I’m sure they’re curious if you had to give a general sort of overview, how is this country treating its veterans?

Ellen Barfield:

Well, how is this country treating anybody who isn’t a massively wealthy person? And I have said for a long time that VA healthcare, if fully funded and staffed is the way everybody’s healthcare should be. Single payer, everybody in, nobody out. And sadly, the VA has never been everybody in. They don’t cover everybody and they really should. It depends on timing, depends on a lot of things as to whether they will take you or not. But a large chunk at least of veterans, but it is a single system where your records are all together, your care is all in one place. They understand the specifics of you being a veteran. And there are lots of other categories of people that need particular attention paid. Everybody should have single payer get rid of the 30% insurance premium that the civilian world pays for their healthcare.

Then we could afford to make sure everybody had primary care, everybody had preventive care. It wouldn’t be showing up at the emergency room at the last minute when you’re catastrophically sick and if they’re going to save you, they’re going to have to spend a lot of time and money, preventive, preliminary, that’s what everybody needs. The VA at least theoretically and to a large extent in fact is damn good. It’s a unified system where it’s all together and they take care of it all. It’s so much easier than having to ferry records across town because you have to go to a specialist who’s never seen you before. Everybody should have it. So yeah, the nation’s not being kind to veterans, but it’s not being kind to anybody that isn’t filthy rich.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Listen, truer words never spoken. And you mentioned something at the beginning of our interview here where you said there are a lot of conservative folks out here. There are folks more on the left, but this moment of crisis is bringing those folks together here as one crowd on the National Mall. Things are getting so bad that it is forcing a lot of folks to come together in common struggle. And I wanted to kind of end on that note from the veteran side of things. What possibilities, possi, do you think this moment presents and what do people need to do to seize on that moment and fight for our rights, fight for our future before they’re all gone?

Ellen Barfield:

Well, I have really avoided the thought that things have to bottom out to energize people, but it’s obviously happening sadly. People are terrified as they have reason to be here. And are we going to lose our Medicaid? Are we going to lose our healthcare? Are we going to lose our social security? And then what the hell are we going to do? Yeah, there is reason to be terrified and we have to unify across our differences and across our skin color and our religion and all those things that they are using. It is what imperialists fascists always do is to divide and conquer, to teach you that somebody who’s on the same level as you is threatening you. When that’s bullshit. Immigrants don’t threaten us. Black folks or white folks or brown folks don’t threaten each other. Pretty much all of us in the same boat now, there was a middle class, it’s pretty much gone.

So we don’t have any damn choice and it is pulling people together. I’m glad of that, but I’m horrified that it had to get so bad. But here we are, veterans for Peace is 40 years old this year. We’re fixing to have our first face-to-face conference in a while because of COVID and other things. We are small. We’re only about 3000. We got up about 10,000 in the earlier Iraq years, but we’re small, but we speak out about challenging all war and there’s got to be a better way that the imperialists of Europe and the US have got to figure out they need to be just part of the world like the rest of it. We got to, there’s struggle in the United Nations and other international forum to recognize that the climate is going to kill us if we don’t stop pumping crap into it. And we have to work together to solve that. And the ridge world owes the global south a huge amount of funds to help them take care of it. And we got to do it here too. And that’s totally the direction we’re not going right now. We can’t possibly, as human beings expect it continue if we don’t come together. And sadly, when it gets this bad, it kind of knocks people upside the head and they understand it a little better.

Lindsay Church:

Good afternoon. My name is Lindsay Church. I’m a Navy veteran, the executive director of Minority Veterans of America, and someone who still holds tightly to a belief that this nation is worth fighting for, not with weapons or wars, but with truth, with compassion, and with conviction that we all deserve to belong. We stand here today not just in protests but in protection one another of our shared future of the Soul of public service itself. Because what we are witnessing is not theoretical, it is not slow moving. It is here, it is deliberate, and it is already doing harm. Today marks the beginning of what history will remember as a purge of transgender service members, an unconscionable order from Secretary of Defense, Pete Hexes that puts thousands of service members across the country and around the world in the crosshairs of their own government. Troops who serve with integrity and distinction are being told that their presence is a problem, that their identities are incompatible with patriotism, that they must choose, walk away from the careers that they’ve built or stand and stay to be persecuted. This week I walked to the halls of Congress beside some of them. Brave, steady, remarkable people who are carrying the weight of betrayal was grace that shouldn’t be required of them. I watched as they told their stories calmly, powerfully, beautifully. And I watched members of Congress and their staff move from polite interest to a deeper knowing. Those weren’t statistics in front of them, they were patriots. And no matter what, some want to believe they belong.

But Secretary Hex says is not the only one making these decisions. At the Department of Veterans Affairs secretary Doug Collins has announced his goal to eliminate 83,000 jobs. Jobs failed by the very people who care for us. When the wars are over, people who process disability claims answer crisis lines, help veterans find housing and walk alongside us through recovery. Many of them veterans themselves, many of them survivors of the very systems now being dismantled. This isn’t reform, it’s abandonment, and it’s not isolated to VA today. The cuts, the job cuts are there, but they’re already spreading the workforces. Its social security, FEMA education, those pillars of community stability are already being slashed. Public servants across the country are being demoralized, discarded, and erased. Not because they failed in their duties, but because they dared to serve the people that those in power find inconvenient. This is not about cost saving, this is about consolidation of power, of control, of the very definition of who gets to be counted as an American. This week, the Navy quietly announced that it will rename the USS Harvey Milk.

A name meant to honor courage, authenticity, and sacrifice stripped from our national memory. Without ceremony, without justification and without shame, the Harvey Milk story is not one they can erase. And neither are the stories of Harriet Tubman or Medgar Evers or Ruth Bader Ginsburg or John Lewis. All namesakes of navy ships, these aren’t just names, they’re the scaffolding of American progress. They remind us who we’ve been and they point to us towards who we could become. When we erase them, we do not become stronger, we become smaller. And while these symbolic erasers continue, the real world harm accelerates. Just weeks ago, the VA rescinded protections that in turn, the transgender non-binary veterans like me could access medically necessary care. Care that is affirming care, that is evidence-based and care that saves lives. This isn’t about budget, it’s not about medicine, it’s about cruelty, cloaked in bureaucracy.

And while the spotlight is aimed at transgender people benefits for others, women, people of color, disabled veterans are being quietly dismantled in the shadows. Let me be clear, we are the canary in the coal mine. What they do to us in the headlines they will do to you in silence. I’ve stood besides veterans as we slept on the steps of the capitol to pass the Pact Act because our sick and dying friends deserved better. I’ve traveled to Ukraine with fellow veterans to stand with our allies in their fight for freedom. I’ve stood my life in the military and far beyond it answering the call to serve. Because to me, service isn’t defined by the uniform. It is defined by what we choose to protect, by who we choose to stand up for. Whether we leave behind a world that is more just more compassionate and more free. So I say this to secretaries, he Collins, and to every person who believes that they can quietly erase us from this country’s fabric. We are not going anywhere. We are your neighbors, your coworkers, your classmates, your family. We’re veterans, we’re public servants, we’re Americans, and we’re still here. We will not be erased. We’ll not be silenced, and we’ll not stop fighting, not just for ourselves, but for the America we know is still possible. Thank you.

Leilana Brandt:

So my name is Leilana Brandt. I am a veteran of the Army, national Guard, served from 1996 to 2002 in the 36 50th maintenance company in Colorado.

Eric Farmer:

My name is Eric Farmer. I served from 1999 to 2020 in the Navy. Did most of my time on submarines, also did a tour to Iraq and I come from Texas.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well, thank you both so much for chatting with me. We are standing here on the National Mall to unite for veterans, unite for America rally. I was wondering if we could just hear a bit more about you all your time in the service and what the hell’s going on right now that is bringing so many folks out here to the mall?

Leilana Brandt:

Well, I am a transgender person and I also was in the military during Don’t ask, don’t tell last time. So I was completely closeted for my own safety, not just in the military, but in my life in general. And it took me a very long time to have the courage to do what some of the service members now are doing, which is being themselves while being in the military. And each and every one of us have taken an oath to the constitution just like every other service member and veteran. And I feel that them being stripped away from the military right now, not only losing their livelihoods but also their homes, their friends, they’re just being stripped from their lives completely just because of how they were born. And I think it is appalling and insulting to all of us.

Maximillian Alvarez:

And can I just ask on that note, could you remind folks who maybe forgotten what the hell it was like in the Don’t ask Don’t Tell era? It felt like we made quite a bit of progress in a short amount of time and now we’re just yanking it right back.

Leilana Brandt:

While for anyone in the two s LGBTQI plus community, they were expected to not speak of it, to not have any hints of who they were. And so they basically had to hide themselves in order to serve. And there were many that were separated through no fault of their own, but because they were outed by other people. And then there were just folks that used that as an opportunity to shirk deployments and stuff like that by falsely claiming it. So it’s not anything that makes sense as far as readiness goes. And also Hertz enlistment because there are many folks in the queer community that want to serve or that need to serve because that is the best way for them to make a livelihood for themselves in a country that discriminates against them already. And the military has long been a place that started to be more diverse before the public sector was. And so I believe that that’s something, or sorry, before the private sector was. So I believe that that’s something that should continue, that it should be at the front of the pack as far as allowing everyone who wants to serve to do so.

Eric Farmer:

My time in the Navy, like I said, was mostly on submarines. When I first started out, it was strictly men, it was strictly men. When I first started out in the submarine community, it wasn’t until about 2006 that they started allowing females to serve on submarines and that was started out as officers. My last submarine that I was on that I did a deployment on was integrated with enlisted females as well. And they stepped up. They stepped up and did the job that all the other men said that they wouldn’t be able to do. And so I have a feeling that what’s about to happen is that they’re going to try to do away with females in the submarine community and it’s not going to make us ready. The jobs are being filled by females right now, and if you take all those females out, we’re not going to be capable of deploying our submarines.

Now what’s bringing out the veterans here is the fact that they are trying to take away the jobs of the veterans. They’re saying that that’s going to help the veteran community with the va. And I’m telling you that we’re about to find out that you can’t do more with less. I have had three to four phone calls where I’m trying to get community care on the phone so that way they can send something to the VA so I can get my work done. And they’re, they’re not picking up the phone. I’ve been on three or four phone calls where it’s been 30 plus minutes and no one’s picking up and it just cuts off and I have to call back. And so I’m waiting. I’m already waiting. And the cuts have just begun.

Maximillian Alvarez:

One, it really gives a grim meaning to that phrase, right? We are doing more with less, but it’s not what people think. You have more plane crashes around the country when you have fewer air traffic controllers. You have more wait times for veterans like yourselves when you have less healthcare staff at the va, right? That’s the kind of more we’re getting for less, which is nuts. But I wanted to ask you if you could both touch on that a bit more. Since your time in the service, what has your experience been like as veterans? How have we been doing as a country in caring for our veterans before the new Trump administration? And then we’ll talk about what the hell’s going on right now.

Leilana Brandt:

Well, I think that what I have seen, I never used the VA because I was never overseas, but my father was Lifetime and had multiple deployments and he has been someone who used the VA and he has always had complaints. He has always had complaints, and it is mostly about the understaffing. It’s not that there is waste happening as far as personnel goes, and that’s the place where they’re trying to make cuts is personnel. That’s the thing they need more of, not less. So if they need to find ways to make it more efficient, that’s great, but personnel is not the place to start with that.

Eric Farmer:

So when I first got out in 2020, I was scared about to go into the VA because I’ve heard all the horror stories. And for me, when I first got out, it was actually pretty good. Not very long wait time to get ahold of somebody. No wait time to get in. It wasn’t until recently that the wait times have become longer and longer and I’m not getting the care that I feel like I need. In fact, I go Wednesday to have a surgery on my shoulder from an injury from the Navy that I re-injured, but I’m not going through the va. I’m having to use my personal insurance. I’m going through TRICARE because the VA wants you to go through physical therapies before they do anything, and I have a tear in my labrum that needs to be fixed.

Maximillian Alvarez:

There’s been so much going on in the past three months alone, it’s hard to even know where to start. But like you said, the cuts to federal agencies across the board, including Veterans Affairs, and I just interviewed some of the nurses at VA hospitals, so they’re feeling it. Folks here in DC are feeling it on the administrative side. It’s going to take a while for us to really wrap our hands around the impact of all this. But I think one silver lining of the terrible moment we’re in is that it’s bringing so many folks out of complacency to gatherings like this. Even people who don’t normally agree on stuff, people who maybe aren’t down with L-G-B-T-Q rights, but who are saying, fuck it, we’re all getting destroyed right now. If we don’t start learning how to work together, we’re all going to fall like dominoes. So I wanted to kind of end on that note because things are obviously pretty grim right now, but what do you think it signifies that so many folks have come out to the mall, that there’s so many diverse groups of veterans, there’s union folks, non-union folks, older folks, younger folks. What message does that send and what do you think it’s going to take for us to really stand together as working people to fight this?

Leilana Brandt:

Well, I think that the military needs to continue to lead that way in diversity as it always has. Every person I ever served with, regardless of what their personal political views, religious views, anything like that, they didn’t give a shit what their buddy in the foxhole believed or where they came from or anything like that, as long as they had their six. And that’s something that we need to remember is that we need to have each other six. We need to be there for each other knowing that we all have a common goal and we have a common enemy, and that is anyone who is an enemy to the constitution that we took an oath to support and defend, and if any of us are under attack, then we all come together to fight that.

Eric Farmer:

I think the silver lining of having the diverse group to show up today is sending a message. It’s going to send a message that the oath that we took does not end, that it’s going to continue until we eradicate the fascism that is trying to implement our country. My grandfather fought in World War II against this, and never in my mind did I think that we would have to fight this, but taking it to the front lines today, to the front steps, to the front door of the capitol, as long as someone, even if they support a certain person, just listens to some facts from today, that might change their mind and go, you know what? I have that oath. I need to defend the constitution because I’ve asked people, well, what are you going to do whenever the constitution starts getting taken away? And they told me that they would fight, but they’re not here. They’re not protesting

Leilana Brandt:

Because they’d be here today if they

Eric Farmer:

Actually recognized it was already happening. They don’t go to any protests. They sit idly by and we can’t do that as veterans with the support of non-veterans. This is what it’s going to take. Non-veterans supporting the veterans, the veterans coming up and being the bonus army that this is about bonus Army of 2025.

Irma Westmoreland:

Well, good afternoon you guys. My name is Irma Westmoreland and I’m a registered nurse in Augusta, Georgia for the va. I’m also secretary treasurer for National Nurses United and chair of our VA division. While I’ve worked for the VA for 34 years as a nurse, some of my earliest memories are going to the VA in Augusta, Georgia to work with the veterans on bingo nights or dance parties. When I got older with my mother who spent 50 years as a VA volunteer, I know. Pretty cool, huh? Also, my husband is a retired SFC Army veteran of 21 years of service who has disabilities from its service. So the VA is deeply personal to me. Our servicemen and women were told, if you need us, we’ll be there for you. It’s a promise. Now, secretary Collins and the administration want to take that promise away and we’re not going to allow it. That’s why it deeply pains me to see these attacks on the va. When we have a contract for the VA care, the nurses and the doctors are going to be caring for these patients. When the administration says they won’t cuts, we say, no, we need to live up to what we told and promised our veterans. We told them that we would be there for them and we need to do that. They stood for you and me and I ask you now to stand for them. No cuts to the va.

Maybe some of you know someone or love someone ill from burn pit smoke or from Agent Orange or lost a limb from an IED exposure or died or suffered from PTSD, military sexual trauma or other chronic illnesses. We know the VA is the best place to get care for these ailments and more. The VA is the only healthcare system centered around the special needs of service members. 30% of our employees are veterans themselves, but it’s more than that. It’s also the only healthcare system in the country that’s fully integrated will help with veterans in poverty, with homelessness, offers, clothing, allowances, and much, much more. I’ve seen magic happen at the VA friendships form fast and it’s not unusual to see veterans helping veterans, whether it’s pushing a wheelchair or walking them down the hall to an office. These veterans share a deep sense of camaraderie and a sense of belonging. That goes a long way in making a person feel better and stronger. Now, if you ask, is the VA perfect? No, it’s not. I can’t tell you that it is, but let me tell you, we’re light years better than the private sector.

That’s why I will not stop fighting to see the VA improved and not destroyed. As you all know, secretary Collins is now looking to cut tens of thousands up to 80,000 jobs from the va eight. Yeah. These decisions are being made at the atmospheric level. The staff that do the work know best where things can be improved and streamlined. And I say ask them. He says, no mission critical positions will be cut. But let me tell you that all positions in the VA are mission critical. It’s important for every person to keep their job from the engineering staff to the housekeeper, to the dietary staff, secretarial staff, and many, many more. When cuts are made, who will be there to have to pick up the work that needs to be done? The nursing staff and the medical staff that are left when supply folks are cut. I heard that operations were being postponed so nurses could run, get clinical surprise. Let me explain that for you. In one place, a nurse had to go and to the warehouse in the VA to get supplies for surgery needed in the OR for a patient who was waiting. That’s not right. That’s right. But that veteran finally got their surgery. It was delayed, but it was done. But it was because the nurses stood for that veteran.

When housekeeping was cut, I heard delays in veterans getting into beds because there was no one to clean the rooms. This causes delays for our patients getting needed treatments started, and in some cases it may need to lead for a more elevated critical need of treatment. It’s common sense cutting 80,000 jobs will cause delays in veteran care. So we say absolutely no cuts. That’s right. We know. We know we are. What we’re witnessing is an effort to push the VA past its breaking point. The ultimate goal is to privatize the VA and pour billions of taxpayer dollars into giant healthcare corporations and the pockets of billionaires instead of the veterans who served our country.

Don’t sell us out because what they do, they know the VA and the federal government. It’s going to pay them on time every time. That’s why they want our care, but they don’t know our care. They don’t know how to provide our care. They don’t know that the VA does it better than anybody. The nurses and the doctors are specifically trained to do it. We’ve been training for years since the VA was incepted and while right now we are not going to go away for sale, we are not for sale. That’s exactly right. It is the nurses and the government workers who are standing up to block this privatization effort. It is because of our unwillingness to back down that nurses and other unions are filling the retribution that came down on March 27th with an executive order designed to strip us of our union rights. It is union busting and intimidation, plain and simple, but we’re fighting back national nurses united along with other federal workers, labor unions, and other veterans groups. We sued the administration over this outreach of executive power. This is not about us, it’s about our patients. We must have collective bargaining protections that allow us to advocate for our veterans and to speak up about issues in our facilities that cause us concerns for our patient safety. One example is we’ve had shortages of IV normal saline to mix medications. How stupid is that?

With that being said, you all understand the VA is not a contract. The union’s not a contract. The unions are nurses. We represent, the union says, and I say no cuts. Keep the VA strong so that we can care for every veteran. NNU knows that an injury to one is an injury to all. So we say when we fight, we win. When we fight, we win and we will prevail. The VA will stand strong for our veterans. Thank you.

Andrea Johnson:

My name is Andrea Johnson and I’m a registered nurse. I work with veterans in San Diego.

Justin Wooden:

And I’m Justin Wooden. I am a registered nurse in the ICU and I work in Tampa, Florida.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well, Andrea, Justin, thank you both so much for chatting with me today. We are of course standing out here on the National Mall at the Unite for Veterans, unite for America rally. You all with National Nurses United have shown up in full force because of course, these cuts that the administration is doing to the federal agencies across the board are impacting workers, including workers at the VA and across the board across the country. So I wanted to ask if you could just say a little more about who you guys are, the work that you do, and what it’s like to work where you work under the conditions we’re under right now.

Andrea Johnson:

So we’re a special breed, and I say that because we care for patients that are not typical patients. Veterans went overseas, they fought wars. They’ve done many things that affect them morally and mentally. And because of those actions and the things that they had to choose to do in wars, they come back broken. And that’s what is unique about the VA system and VA nurses and healthcare providers in general, is that we have that knowledge and experience to care for the veteran in their entirety, right? Outside public hospital systems don’t have that knowledge or experience working with veterans and the special, unique needs that they come back after serving their country with. So as BA nurses we’re there, we’re taking care of that whole veteran. We’re taking care of their medications, we’re taking care of their home life. We’re coordinating with social workers to make sure that they have all the resources that they need. It’s not just passing medications. We’re caring for that whole veteran. And I think that’s what’s special about being nurses

Justin Wooden:

And our veteran population that we care for is also different than the fact that I’ve worked private sector before and I’ve worked the va, the veterans, they’re not like the average person when it comes to their care. They want it straight, don’t beat around the bush. They want to know what’s going on, cut to the chase, just tell me what is going on. They don’t want sugarcoated. They want direct answers and we offer that.

Andrea Johnson:

That’s right. And I think the other thing that makes veterans unique is that they come from a system where they’ve been told what they can wear, how they can act, what they can say, what they can do. And soner, VA nurses and healthcare providers in general struggle sort of with this authority in a way where we educate and try to teach our veterans better ways to care for themselves.

But we have that sort of roadblock because they put up a wall, it feels like we’re telling them what to do, and that’s never what we are trying to do. So we always have to find unique ways with each veteran. Each veteran is unique in how they receive and retain information. So I think that’s what makes us unique too than outside hospitals, is that veterans are a very special population and taking away the care that the VA provides them is despicable. And like I said, no outside hospital system could take on the number of patients that the VA system cares for or the special needs that the veterans have.

Justin Wooden:

And veterans, they have a little camaraderie. If you’re in the army, you’re army strong. If you’re in the Marines, you’re strong. So every branch kind of has a little internal battle with each other, but when it comes to it, they’re all a brotherhood. They will stand behind each other. A lot of our veterans in Tampa where I go, they come to the VA hospital just to be around veterans. So it’s a community to them. It’s not just a place to get healthcare, but they go there because they feel the camaraderie, they feel the brotherhood. So while they have appointments, they come early just to talk with other veterans that they know from places or they just feel more secure. And a lot of military veterans don’t like to talk about their time and their service, but at the va, we encourage it, it therapeutic, it’s cathartic, and they feel free to tell stories there that they haven’t told their families.

I mean, we have patients who are towards the end of their life and they have all these things that they haven’t said that they finally want to say, and they feel comfortable with the nursing staff, with the doctors at the VA to have those conversations and tell the things that they were so afraid to talk about before. So I love working for the va. I think it’s a phenomenal thing and a wonderful place to work. But the current administration is causing a lot of rifts and making it a lot more difficult in a lot of ways.

Andrea Johnson:

These actions by the government are creating anxiety and fear for healthcare workers coming to the va. That’s not stopping us from coming to the va. We’re dedicated to our mission and we show up day in and day out to deliver that care despite what’s happening. But that’s why we’re here today, right? We’re fighting for what we know the vets earned and what they deserve.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Could you guys say a little more about what has been going on inside the VA over the past three months? I mean, how have these policies from the Trump administration affected you all in your day-to-day work? Right. I mean, there’s the current attack on the collective bargaining rights of federal employees, over a million federal employees, including nurses at National Nurses United work for the va, right? There’s like the voluntary resignations, staff cuts that are impacting agencies across the board in different ways. Could you just give listeners a little on the ground view of how has this been affecting you all and the work you do over the past few months?

Andrea Johnson:

Well, like I mentioned earlier, nurses, at least the nurses I’ve been speaking to in San Diego, and I’m hearing from my colleagues across other VA facilities as well, is that there’s a decrease in morale. People are feeling fearful and anxious coming to work because we don’t know what’s next. We don’t know if tomorrow when I go into work, I’m going to lose my job. So we’re dealing with those fears, but we’re still coming in, right? It’s not stopping us from coming in. It’s not making me want to quit my job and go find a job somewhere else. I know what I do at the VA is important, and I know that the veterans appreciate the care that they receive there. And I think the government and the people making these decisions need to actually come and spend some time with these people to better understand where they’re coming from, making these decisions without any of their, in my opinion, without any of the veterans in mind, any of the federal workers really, or the American people for that matter. But specifically for today, they’re making these decisions, not considering what the veterans want.

Justin Wooden:

So I work in the ICU at the bedside, and it affects me in ways because sometimes they send us to areas because they’re short staffed, that we are going to areas and covering areas that we’re not familiar with or used to working in these areas. And a lot of people are like, oh, well, you’re a nurse, you can work anywhere. Well, and I like to is like, would you go to a podiatrist to get your teeth done? They’re both doctors, but it’s similar. We have different specialties. And also as a leader in the union at my facility, I round the hospital and talk with all the nurses and all the units to see what their concerns are. And a lot of ’em come to me. They’re like, well, we’re told there’s no union. There is a union,

Andrea Johnson:

Andrea, Andrea. It’s really confusion.

Justin Wooden:

There’s a lot of animosity every day. You don’t know what’s going on. It’s just very tense. I guess that’s a good way to put it. But going around the hospital, a lot of the nurses that I work with are saying they feel that there’s more focus being put on numbers and metrics as opposed to the care of veterans or the staff. They’re putting numbers over the patients. And ever since I’ve been at the va, which is, I’ve always had a wonderful time, but recently it’s becoming very, like you said, very anxious. It becomes very nerve wracking like you’re walking on eggshells just because you don’t know what’s next.

Andrea Johnson:

Yeah. We just don’t have any clue. But I think, and Justin made a good point, that a lot of our nurses are concerned about the union because of these executive orders and attacks on union unions and the federal government in general. But as union leaders, we remind them that the contract our CBA, our contract is not the Union National Nurses United. Yes, we are the union. I’m not the union. It’s every single one of our nurses that are on the floor, right, collectively, so they can try to take us down, but they’re only going to succeed if we let them. And so I’m using that as sort of a motivator to keep my nurses motivated and encouraged to continue to fight the good.

Justin Wooden:

Because right now the current administration is, they’re doing union busting tactics. So being a federal government agency, they took away union dues being done through a direct deposit through your paycheck. So essentially we lost every member we had, and now we have to start from the ground up getting everyone to reset up. So essentially it’s like a grassroots project starting from the ground

Andrea Johnson:

Up. It’s very grassroots right now. Yeah.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Can I just ask a blunt question? What does eliminating collective bargaining rights and changing the structure of how union dues are paid, how does that serve the American people? How is that? Are you creating efficiency or cutting waste?

Andrea Johnson:

It has absolutely nothing to do with government efficiency and cutting waste. If anything, especially federal agency unions provide protections to the employees that they represent to speak out about fraud, waste, and abuse. We provide that layer of protection for VA nurses to speak out about patient safety issues when there’s not enough staff or if we have broken equipment, our collective bargaining agreement provides, in a way, it’s a bubble. It sort of insulates us from retaliation from being targeted by management. So I think that’s the importance of our collective bargaining agreement.

Justin Wooden:

And I worked in private sector, so I can see. So in the private sector, say you’re an employee and you’ve done something. So I call you into the office, say, Hey Max, you did this. Can’t be doing that. Here’s a writeup, right? If you are opposed to that or don’t agree with it, that’s your opinion and you have no say in a union, you have a union backing, you have union rights. You can have a representative there to say, Hey, I don’t think this is right. And we can investigate it and say, Hey, I don’t think this is just what you’re doing. So we stand up for our members.

That’s just one scenario. We also ensure, like Andrea said, safe working additions. We make sure the veterans are safe, making sure that if they change any policies that, or any changes in working conditions that it’s safe for the staff or things like that. So there’s a lot of things the agency does to help protect workers, not just, it’s not saving money. I mean, yes, the union does fight for, we look at locality pay and we look at all the area hospitals, how much are they making? Why is our pay not equal or similar to the surrounding areas? We do those things as well. We also help our employees who have problems with hr. A lot of our time at my facility is spent because HR payroll hasn’t done what they’re supposed to do or bonuses weren’t given or a lot of unjust things are being done by HR because this is the federal government. It’s not just we don’t have our own HR department. We have to go through multiple steps to get things done. So we have a lot of resources that we use to get to the people so we can help our employees.

Andrea Johnson:

Yeah, yeah. Just to kind of last little thoughts on that, like I said, the collective bargaining agreement, and I hate to describe it this way, but it’s sort of an insurance policy for some people because like I said, there’s sometimes fear to speak out about safety issues and when something is being done incorrectly because of that fear of retaliation or being singled out and like I said, that collective bargaining agreement provides that protective layer. It makes people feel safe and comfortable to be able to speak out. And that’s why those are important. It holds management accountable. They can’t just decide to do whatever they want because if it’s written in a contract, they have to follow that

Justin Wooden:

Essentially having union is having a democracy. There’s due process and checks and balances in the private sector, it’s more authoritarian. This is what I say, do it

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well. And that’s always been my retort when I hear folks say they want government to be run a business. And I was like, well, as someone who interviews workers at businesses across the country, I can tell you you’re saying you want our government to be run like a dictatorship. How most businesses are run. I could talk to you guys for hours, but I know I got to let you go here, but I wanted to just pick up on something that you were saying both of y’all. But we’ve interviewed a lot of healthcare workers on this show over the years

And through those interviews from folks who work at private Catholic hospitals to public hospitals, university hospitals, certain common like horrifying trends have become apparent in terms of what’s going on in healthcare. The crisis that we have been facing with more work being piled onto fewer workers, patient care, the quality of patient care going down as patients are increasingly treated like commodities to come in, get their care and get kicked out. This whole sort of McDonald’s model of healthcare is something that I’ve heard described from different healthcare workers around the country. I wanted to ask how much the VA has sort of been going the same way or how things are different within the va. I guess maybe to end on that note, what do you all in the VA deal with on a day-to-day basis that is indicative not only of problems that need to be fixed at the va, but problems that we’re facing in our healthcare industry across the board right now?

Justin Wooden:

I can speak to that first.

Andrea Johnson:

I’m going to let you go ahead

Justin Wooden:

Because working in private sector

Before coming to the va, I’ve seen both sides. So I know everything is about billing. In private sector, it’s about getting money. Because they’re for profit, they need to make money. So every procedure that’s done has to be documented so they can bill for it to get money. At the va, it’s not like that at the va. So you were describing healthcare as like a fast food restaurant. So drive through, get what you need, and then at the VA we care about the veteran whole. So when they come in, we’re worried about discharge planning when they come in. So are there anything you need at home? Do you need shower bars? So we’re working on the discharge to make sure when they do leave, when it’s time for them to go, they have the appropriate things. Do they have problems with any meals? We’re going to get every resource.

Mental health, we schedule their appointments before they leave. Where in private sector, they don’t do that. So before you’re discharged from the va, any follow up appointments, we we make sure they’re scheduled before you walk out the door and we print out a calendar of here’s all your upcoming appointments so you know what you have to have done and all your medications are listed, all these things are there. We don’t want to set up for failure. We want them to know their health course, know what they need to do and follow up with those treatments. We have social workers who call after they leave to make sure, hey, it’s been a week since you’ve been home, is everything okay? So those are the things that I see the biggest difference. I think that’s the biggest strength the VA has. So for them to do cuts and try and eliminate that system, I think is the worst thing we can do.

Andrea Johnson:

And to sort of piggyback off of what Justin was saying is, I mean you made a good point, max. Our people are talking across the country about our healthcare system and how broken it is. And so taking 9 million veterans who receive care in a system, that one has significantly higher standards than any hospital outside of a federal agency. Were held to a higher standard when we screw up. That’s in the news. When local hospitals make a mistake that’s not in the news because they’re smaller, it’s more central. But the VA is a federal agency where across the entire country. So if the VA does make a mistake, it’s known. But what we do very well isn’t necessarily spoken about in the public as much, but the VA does a lot of things very well for our veterans

Justin Wooden:

And veterans choose to come to the VA

Andrea Johnson:

That outside hospital systems cannot, cannot do. And if we eliminate the va, if we try to continue to push veterans into the community with a system who already or that already cannot serve the citizens that they’re set out to serve and we add 9 million more people to that system, what’s going to happen? We’re going to have a very sick America that is unhealthy, that can’t happen

Justin Wooden:

Paying through the nose

Andrea Johnson:

And paying through the nose. And

Justin Wooden:

The PAC Act added 400,000 more veterans that can get care and then they want to cut 80,000 plus jobs. So who’s going to care for those veterans, those newly signed veterans? You’re offering more services for veterans, but now you have less people to provide those services.

Andrea Johnson:

Right. And we know studies show our experience and our knowledge knows that the more staff you have on hand to care for people, the better healthcare outcomes there are. And that’s just, you can’t make that up. It’s documented, very well documented. And we should be looking at not dismantling one healthcare system that serves 9 million people, but looking at the healthcare system as a whole on how we can make it better. Not taking one away and throwing it into this other one that’s already a disaster. We need to be looking at trying to make our outside hospital systems more like the VA as far as standards and things like that go. I think we’d be better off in America if more outside hospital systems followed in the va, which is why we need to keep the VA in place.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well, and just a final question on that note to everyone who’s out there listening right now, whether they’re in a union or not, whether they’re veterans or not, why should they care about this and what can they do to help? How can they stand in solidarity with you all at National Nurses United and what can they do to join this fight to save the va?

Andrea Johnson:

Okay. I think this fight, whether you’re Democrat or Republican, you are union or non-union. I think that this is an important issue because we’re dealing with our veterans. These are people who risk their lives, gave up time from their families, were injured, witnessed some atrocious things. And if we’re not supporting them and receiving healthcare, then there’s something wrong. And I think that we need to be focusing on making sure that the veterans continue to receive the care that they have earned and that they receive. And because this is just me, but what they’re doing to the veterans, this is just one step. They could easily turn that to people who are not in the union, to people who are not veterans, to just regular old Americans. And then what are we going to do when our already broken healthcare system is even worse? So I think that healthcare in general should be a human issue no matter what side of the aisle you fall on.

Justin Wooden:

And my point I always like to say is every one of us has family member. If your family member is sick and in the hospital and they hit their call bill because they need help, you want somebody to be there to respond with the way the current healthcare system is going. We’re being put spread more places, so it’s taking us longer to respond to those calls. We as humans, as you said, our job as nurses, we want to care for our patients. We don’t want do any harm to our patients. We want to be there. So we are just fighting and want people to know that we’re here fighting for your family members, for your loved ones and for our veterans because that’s our job. That’s our oath that we’ve taken as nurses. So we just want to be able to have the supplies, the tools and the resources we need to give the best care we can to our veterans and patients.

Cecil E. Roberts:

My name is not just Cecil Roberts, president of United Mine Workers of America. I used to be Sergeant Cecil e Roberts in Vietnam in 1 96, like infantry brigade.

When I first got to Vietnam, I want you to listen to this. Some people tell me I was never scared when I went over there. You’re looking at a guy that was scared to death.

I tell the truth, that’s the truth. I was scared when I first got here. It appeared that nobody liked me. These people with 15 months, 10 months, eight months counting the days, they looked at us new guys as like, that guy’s going to get me killed when they hurt my accent. Oh no. Another hill belly from West Virginia. That’s what they thought. They looked at me, these veterans, they said, how you going to act? I didn’t understand the question. How you going to act? I want you to remember that because I’m going to ask you how are we going to act moving forward from this place? That’s right.

And then bullets go right by your nose. They look at me and say, don’t mean nothing, man. I’m thinking bullshit and say something to me and I want you to think about that. You get immune to this and I saw so many wonderful people with kids at home, mom and dad’s at home, wives at home, and all kinds of friends at home. Not make it. When I first got there, somebody with 30 days got killed, had a daughter he never met. Somewhere in this United States of America, there’s a 57-year-old woman, had never met her father. Now, how many veterans we have here? By show of hands, you’re going to get a test right now. How many of you met a million there in Vietnam or where you are stationed? How many of you met a millionaire? There’s a good reason millionaires don’t defend a country. They take advantage of the country, and if there’s people listening to this live broadcast, you could be mad. Your feelings could be hurt and I don’t care.

The other thing I want to ask you, when you got back home, how many people patted you on the back, particularly if you was a Vietnam veteran? Didn’t happen. Didn’t happen. But I want to thank everybody, every veteran because we’ve been embraced for the last 20 years and that means so much to me. Thank God for you. It isn’t, isn’t enough to come here and rally. This is a great first step. Abraham Lincoln said, this is a country of the people by the people and for the people it has turned in to a country for the rich people who don’t care about the rest of us, I’m going to tell you what we should be planning on doing. We should demand that every person who worked for the federal government and lost their union rights be restored. Right now, I was in the army and I’m glad people recognized the service of people who were in the army, but we shouldn’t be having a parade.

We shouldn’t be having to parade until every veteran has the healthcare they deserve and we shouldn’t be having a tax plan send to the rich who don’t need money. Here’s another tax cut for you. Until every American who has a job, doesn’t have a job, has a job until every homeless person has a home, we should make, I’m going to close with something. First of all, I’m calling on Congress. I’m calling on everybody that’s elected. I’m calling on every American, how are you going to act? Because this is terrible what’s happening to this country, and that’s why we’re here today.

You do know, this is my last quote, okay? On map next to last, Dr. King was assassinated. One month before I left Vietnam and I watched these African-American soldiers so desperate, so frustrated, so hurt, pick up their rifles, pick up their M sixties, and went out into those rice patties and defended the United States. When the United States didn’t defend them, that was wrong. This one will really challenge you. Dr. King in the middle of the civil rights movement said this to those who were being bitten by dogs. He said, listen to this. If you don’t have something, not somebody, not your wife, not your daughter, got your mom, not your dad, something that you would die for, you don’t have a life worth living. Think about that.

This is the last one. It’s strange that I jumped from Dr. King to Mother Jones. My great grandmother and Mother Jones were friends, two great radicals, and I’m so proud of our heritage. You may not know this history, but when you leave here today, read it. How many of you heard La Lulo at Ludlow? The gun thugs came off the hill after taking the machine gun and firing into the tent calling all day long. Sometime in the middle of the day, they cut a 12-year-old boy In two later in the day, they murdered the leader of that tent colony, and then they set those tents on fire and burned 13 women and children alive. That happened. That’s part of our history. Mother Jones did not quit. She called for a rally in Trinidad about 15 miles from the Ludlow site. She looked out on a crowd probably twice this size, and she looked at them, take this W when you go home. She said, sure, you lost. Sure you lost. But they had bayonets and all you had was the Constitution of the United States of America. And then she posed. Lemme assure you, any confrontation between a bayonet and a constitution, the bayonet will win every time. But you must fight. You must Fight and win. You must fight and lose, but you must fight. What must you do? You must fight. You must fight. You must fight.

Maximillian Alvarez:

All right, gang, that’s going to wrap things up for us this week, and I want to thank you for listening and I want to thank you for caring. We’ll see you all back here next week for another episode of Working People. And if you can’t wait that long, then go explore all the great work we’re doing at the Real News Network where we do grassroots journalism that lifts up the voices and stories from the front lines of struggle. And we need to hear those voices now more than ever. Sign up for the Real News Newsletter so you never miss a story. And help us do more work like this by going to the real news.com/donate and becoming a supporter today. I promise you it really makes a difference. I’m Maximilian Alvarez. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Solidarity forever.

This post was originally published on The Real News Network.