Caving to pressure from Zionist groups, Toronto’s City Council just passed a controversial new bylaw that will severely limit Canadians’ right to peacefully protest. In this episode of The Marc Steiner Show, Marc speaks with Toronto-based, award-winning journalist Samira Mohyeddin about the origins and effects of Toronto’s “bubble zone” bylaw and how it will provide a template for other jurisdictions across North America to undermine political dissent.

Guest(s):

• Samira Mohyeddin is an award winning producer and broadcaster based in Toronto. For nearly a decade she was a producer and host at Canada’s National Broadcaster, CBC Radio. She is the founder of On The Line Media and the 2024 / 2025 journalism fellow at the Women and Gender Studies Institute at the University of Toronto

Additional resources:

• Samira Mohyeddin, From the Desk, “Toronto passes Zionist bylaw”
• Adam Carter, CBC, “Toronto city council passes controversial ‘bubble zone’ protest bylaw”

Studio Production: David Hebden
Audio Post-Production: Alina Nehlich

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Transcript

The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.

Marc Steiner:

Welcome to the Marc Steiner Show here on The Real News. I’m Marc Steiner and it’s good to have you all with us. And we once again, go to Israel Palestine, to Palestine, Israel and talk about what’s going on and the horrendous war and slaughter taking place in Gaza at this moment. And we’re once again joined by Samira Mohyeddin, who hosts From the Desk, which is an incredible program and welcome. Good to have you with us.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Always a pleasure to speak with you, Marc.

Marc Steiner:

And Samira is an award-winning producer and broadcaster for nearly a decade. She was producer and host of Canada’s National Broadcaster, CPC Radio. She’s the founder of the online media and a 20 24, 20 25 Journalism Fellow at the Women and Gender Studies Institute at the University of Toronto. And Samir’s, always good to have you with us. And I really big sign. I mean, when we talked last, we focused on Palestine, Israel, but there’s something about this particular moment that is one of the worst in my 30, 40 years, 50 years. One of that’s been being involved in this from my time as a young Zionist to now. And one of the things I posited to a congregation, a synagogue a few weeks back was how can we be doing this after all that’s been done to us? And I just feel that we’re in a very dangerous moment worldwide because of all this. Well, let me let you jump in.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Yeah. The images that have been coming out, particularly in the last two weeks, children burned beyond recognition, sinned and charred bodies. We saw that young girl walking through a fiery inferno survival itself as a form of punishment. There’s 24,000 orphans now in Gaza, and it just keeps getting worse. And I’m sorry to have laughed at the start of the program, but when these images came out a couple of days ago of this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, and you saw Palestinians lined up in these cages, I mean, it’s just horrendous what we’re seeing. And yet you have these governments, the US government, Canada, uk, Germany, just not acting. It just begs the question, where is the red line? Is there even a red line for Israel?

Marc Steiner:

That’s an important question. One of the things, I had a conversation the other day with some friends from Israel, one of whom lives in Canada, another one family who lives here in the states, old friends who were part of the world of maam, which was the Marx Zionist party back in the day in Israel, and the left in Israel itself has gone. They’re in Germany, they’re in Canada, they’re in the United States, they’re in Mexico, they’re in Argentina, they’re not there. And you’re seeing this kind of really brutal Neofascist government.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Well, they’re under attack. They’re under attack in Israel, right? I mean, they are being brutalized, they’re being imprisoned, they’re being silenced, they’re being censored. So a Netanyahu Smote Rich and Ben Gere talk about Israel being on a fight on eight different fronts. And one of those fronts is the enemy from within. And that enemy for them is anyone who is speaking out, anyone who’s even saying ceasefire is being seen as an enemy.

Marc Steiner:

So I’m just curious, in your analysis, you’ve been doing this for so long and it’s so deep in your consciousness and your work, as I alluded to earlier, what’s happening this moment in Gaza is different than I’ve seen in a long time. And I wonder where you think this is taking us.

Samira Mohyeddin:

I mean, there are a couple of things. I think one of them is that I don’t think people were paying attention when October 7th first happened, and then October 8th and ninth came, this government particularly, I’m speaking about the Netanyahu government, was very clear about what they intended to do, right? They said, we’re going to cut off all food, cut off all water, cut off all electricity, and get rid of the seed of Amalek so that there was this sort of invoking of biblical stories, biblical language. And to kill the seed of Amalek means to kill the women. And children just wipe out the entire group. And that’s what we’re seeing happen.

Norman Finkelstein refers to the mowing of the lawn that Israel says it does once in a while in Gaza. This is the entire burning of the entire fields happening. I was talking to a friend about this. There are no battlefields that you can really speak of in Gaza, the UN report that came out six months ago noted that more than 80% of people killed in Gaza were killed inside their homes. So what does that tell you? That means that people are just being targeted in the middle of the night while they’re sleeping. Entire families have been wiped off the registry. So yeah, you’re very right, mark, when you say that we’ve never seen anything like this. And I just feel like Israel is at a point where Netanyahu and its government, smote, rich, Ben Vere, they know that this is the moment that if they don’t wipe out Gaza now, they’ll never get another chance. And also, this is something else that I keep impressing upon people, and it also gives me a little bit of hope when I think about the history. So this isn’t the first time that Israel has wanted to get rid of Palestinians in Gaza, Israel first invaded Gaza back in 1956.

And in 1976, Israel wanted to remove all Palestinians from Gaza into the Sinai and put them on basically reservations. They built all these homes and they wanted to move them in there. So I get a little bit of hope from that knowing that they’ve tried to do it before and it didn’t work. And I’m hoping that it won’t work this time either. But they have made the entire landscape uninhabitable. That’s the difference

Marc Steiner:

They have. I think that we’re seeing, I think to the last, as we started this conversation, I maybe even under not seeing the right number, but I was reading 56,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Those are the ones that are confirmed,

Marc Steiner:

Right?

Samira Mohyeddin:

And when I spoke with doctors, I realized what that means. That means that a doctor saw you in a hospital and that you died before their eyes. And so they mark that down. But you and I both know there are tens of thousands of people under the rubble that we actually have seen Israeli bulldozers going in and leveling entire towns. All of Rafa has been leveled. There are people under that rubble,

Marc Steiner:

Which you said earlier when you raise the name Amalek from the Old Testament, the heightened danger here for me is watching fundamentalists in Israel, religious fundamentalists, taking over the country, taking over the argument, taking over the language being used, and the imagery, which says a lot about the destruction of your enemy, whoever they are. That’s why I think this moment is so dangerous.

Samira Mohyeddin:

I mean, mark, just to pick up on what you’re saying, just look at the way the star of David has been used, the way it’s been desecrated, the way it’s been spray painted on people’s homes that have been destroyed and occupied in Gaza. It’s so dangerous for Judaism. Really, this Israeli government has ruined Judaism is causing antisemitism a very real scourge in our society. Not only have they hollowed out the definition of antisemitism, because anyone who’s criticizing Israel now is antisemitic, but they are also desecrating the very iconography of the religion for nefarious purposes.

Marc Steiner:

I agree. I think that when you look at how Judaism is being used at this moment, antisemitism has always been there. It lurks beneath the surface all the time. People have hated Jews forever. And what this does is unleash it. You can see it all across America. You can see it across Europe. You can see it across everywhere. I had this argument the other day where I said, no, I’m not saying that Jews are causing that. We’re causing antisemitism. I’m saying the actions of Israel are unleashing the forces of antisemitism and I that those contradictions are just abound. Let’s take it back home for a moment. I’m going to talk a bit about where you live in Canada,

Samira Mohyeddin:

Toronto. Yeah,

Marc Steiner:

Toronto. And many of our listeners here who don’t live in Canada, have no idea what this whole bubble thing’s about. So tell us exactly what’s happening in Toronto with quashing down any anti-ISIS Israeli protests at the moment.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Yeah, so we just recently, when I say we, I mean the Toronto City Council just passed what’s called a bubble zone bylaw. And in order to explain this to you, I need to take you back to March, 2024. So in March, 2024, there were real estate blitzes throughout North America, including in the us. One of them was in Teaneck, New Jersey. And so inside synagogues, they were selling stolen Palestinian land. These are settlements. So settlement properties were being sold in synagogues. And so inside those synagogues were real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and lawyers ready to sell you homes within illegally occupied.

Marc Steiner:

It happened here in Baltimore,

Samira Mohyeddin:

Palestine. Oh, it did? I didn’t know that. Everywhere.

Marc Steiner:

Everywhere.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Okay. Yeah. So here in Canada, we had one in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and I’m not sure if there was one in Vancouver. But anyways, as a result of this, people went and were protesting outside of that, of those synagogues. And as a result of this, a lot of the pro-Israeli organizations here in Toronto and in Canada, were calling for what they’re calling bubble zone bylaws, which means if you can classify your place as a vulnerable institution, which the city of Toronto has, so places of worship are considered vulnerable institutions, schools, recreational areas like art galleries and blah, blah, blah, these places can be excluded from people protesting in front of them. And so in March of 24, people had these real estate blitzers here in Toronto, people had gone and protested. And in December of 2024, after so much pressure being put on the Toronto City Council, the solicitor, so city solicitor was tasked with coming up for a plan for a bylaw, which would protect these institutions and create these areas. So that’s 3000 places where in Toronto, where you potentially cannot protest any

Marc Steiner:

3000 places, you can’t set up a pig line.

Samira Mohyeddin:

3000 places. Yes. So what ended up happening was that the city started public consultations about this bylaw. Now, they had three public consultations, and the report that came out of those public consultations was that 77% of the public were against this bylaw. They did not want it. However, they still went ahead with a vote in Toronto City Council. So last week they had a vote, 16 of the counselors passed, the bylaw nine were against it. So ultimately it passed. Now, what was interesting in the back and forth on this bylaw was that there were motions that were introduced. So 20 meters, 50 meters, 100 meters. How far away do you have to be from one of these institutions to be able to protest? And so initially the bylaw had said 20 meters, but they passed a motion so that now it’s 50 meters, you have to be 50 meters away from a synagogue or wherever else that something is going on that you want to protest about. And so I made this joke to my friend. I said, if a protest happens in the forest and no one is around to hear it, is that even a protest? The whole point of a protest is to be disruptive.

So this is what we’re seeing. We’re seeing this throughout North America, in particular, old laws being broken, new laws being enacted also that people who want to support Israel during this genocide can do so comfortably.

Marc Steiner:

I mean, people look at Canada in places like Toronto as being politically progressive. So what’s the political dynamic that allows us to happen in Toronto that allows us 16 people to vote for this line to oppose it on the city council? What is a dynamic politically in Canada that’s allowing this to happen?

Samira Mohyeddin:

I have to be honest, the Israeli lobby is very strong here. They put a lot of pressure on our lawmakers to act, and if they don’t, the accusations of antisemitism are sky high. And there is a real fear of being branded as antisemitic. And that’s really what it boils down to, because there is no reason why our lawmakers would sacrifice our charter of rights and freedoms, particularly the freedom of assembly, the freedom of expression, all of these freedoms in order to not allow people to protest in certain areas. Now, I will say for all the hoop law that this bylaw has caught, I was at a protest yesterday.

The former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations was being hosted here in Toronto by a pro-Israel organization inside one of Toronto’s landmarks. This is a public institution. And as you recall, GLA Adon, the former ambassador on his last day, said that he thinks the UN headquarters should be wiped off the face of the earth. So this is a man who was being hosted, and now people did go and protest and they didn’t care if there was a bylaw or no bylaw or so. People are really going to let bylaws be bylaws. I mean, no one’s going to care about this. They’re going to go protest. The only thing that this might do, and by the way, it’s cost taxpayers in this city, $2 million for this

Marc Steiner:

Bylaw. What do you mean cost $2 million?

Samira Mohyeddin:

It’s going to cost $2 million. The new bylaw officers, all the paperwork, all the bureaucracy that’s going to go into enforcing this thing, which is really unenforceable

Because what’s going to happen is it’s going to clog up our courts. People are going to bring so many charter rights infringements against this bylaw constitutional infringements. So it’s an absurd thing, but again, it’s an absurdity that goes to the times that we are living in right now, whereas it’s also a tragedy. There’s a lot of comedy involved in what you and I are seeing right now, mark, because we have the weight of history on our side. We’ve been here before, we’ve seen fascism before, and this is just another manifestation of it. And I really feel like people need to wake up and understand what’s happening around them.

Marc Steiner:

So I’m curious to pick up from the particular point about the growth of neo fascism all around us. We’re seeing in this country, in United States, Trump attacking Harvard and other universities threatening to take away their money, calling them Antisemites, which is just total bs. I mean, Harvard antisemitic. I mean, the percentage of Jewish kids at Harvard and the faculty. Give me a break. Anyway, so that’s happening and it’s also happening in Canada.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Yes.

Marc Steiner:

I’m curious about from your perspective, what is the political power and dynamic that’s pushing that it, it’s not just the Jewish community. I mean, it’s something beyond that. Something is happening here that’s pushing a very powerful Neofascist agenda across the globe.

Samira Mohyeddin:

I mean, it also has to do with money, right? It’s capitalism. Also, the University of Toronto, for instance, where I was a journalism fellow this year at the Women and Gender Studies Institute, you are seeing our professors at the University of Toronto being persecuted also, they’re being brought in to speak to the vice provost, the dean, et cetera, for things for, for social media posts, for literally just saying ceasefire or asking why their institutions aren’t divesting from Israeli genocide, asking why their pensions are going towards arms manufacturers. I mean, these are the basic things that people are being persecuted for, that they’re having their livelihoods put on the line. This is what we’re seeing. It’s not just in the us. I mean, it’s not to the extent that you’re seeing it in the United States, but there’s a lot of professors that are under a lot of threat here throughout Canada.

Marc Steiner:

So what is resistance to that? What’s the political dynamic taking place in Canada, let’s say, since we’re talking about your country at this moment, that resists that and builds a movement to stop it?

Samira Mohyeddin:

I mean, I can tell you one of the things that was a big victory at the University of Toronto is that the Professors Pension Federation Union voted to divest from weapons manufacturers. This was a big two.

Marc Steiner:

This is across Canada?

Samira Mohyeddin:

No, this is the University of Toronto.

Marc Steiner:

Toronto, okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Samira Mohyeddin:

So the University of Toronto did this, and then the week after Toronto Metropolitan University did the same. So you’re seeing this happen, and another big thing that happened was that yesterday the Toronto District School Board finally recognized that anti Palestinian racism is a thing because they had been denying it for years. And there are teachers now who are pushing to have the nakba taught in the school system. Now, there is a lot of pushback on this from pro-Israeli groups here, but they are slowly trying to get this within the curriculum. And I always say, if history, if you are afraid of history or history is not your friend, there’s something going on there. So they are saying that some of the students would feel uncomfortable with teaching about Palestinian history. Who would feel uncomfortable about that?

Marc Steiner:

Right. It’s like saying in Canada, United States, no, we are not going to teach you about what happened to indigenous people in America. It might make you uncomfortable that your ancestors wiped out entire people. Right,

Samira Mohyeddin:

Exactly. I mean, when I went to school here in Canada in the eighties, we never learned about what this government and what this country did to the indigenous population. It’s only in the last, oh, I would say decade or so that students are wearing orange shirts, that there’s the truth and reconciliation that people are learning.

Marc Steiner:

What’s an orange shirt mean?

Samira Mohyeddin:

Oh, sorry. Orange shirt day is for the marking, the indigenous indigenous day here, and what happened to young people that were stolen from their parents and taken to residential schools, and we know what happened inside those schools. So that’s only been happening in the last decade. So that’s really what teachers now here are pushing for, but there is a real pushback on it.

Marc Steiner:

So taking a step back to where we are with Israel Palestine and what’s happening, and we’re watching what’s happening in Gaza, I think that this is a very pivotal moment. It’s a piece I’m working on now that says it’s not since 1948 that the power of this moment, and we are in a very dangerous place. I think you’re seeing antisemitism rise up. You’re seeing Israel just mass murdering Palestinian children and families all across Kaza, more land being taken in what’s called the West Bank and New Israeli and the right winging just taking power there and across the globe. So I’m curious, you are in the midst of this all the time. You speak about this, you fight about it, you’re on the front line, and I’m curious where you think this takes the organizing and fight against both what’s happening in Israel at this moment with Palestinians and the larger question of the rise of this kind of neofascist movement and how you stop it.

Samira Mohyeddin:

One of the things I’ve noticed, and I’m sure you have also, is that within the last two weeks, there seems to be a bit of a shift, particularly in mainstream media. You’re seeing journalists start to do their jobs, which means when an IDF spokesperson comes on the air and says, there are no starving people in Gaza, there are no starving Palestinians. In Gaza, you’re seeing journalists actually say, well, wait a minute. We just saw this 9-year-old die. I saw the bodies. I’ve seen the bones. So there’s a lot of that happening right now. There’s a bit of a turn happening. Everyone is starting to do their jobs, what they’re supposed to do. There are also backtracks from institutions, writers, artists, people who did not feel comfortable speaking out a year ago are starting to speak out now. And I have to say to all those people, bless you. Try and encourage others to do it. I really think that having the courage to speak out right now is contagious. And so come out, come out wherever you are. That to me is the first thing. It’s not too late. Remember, the screenshots are not going to be kind. This stuff wasn’t around during apartheid South Africa. We know who spoke out

Now and who didn’t, and so it’s never too late to do that. The other thing that I’m seeing is that there are some murmurings within even governments like Germany’s saying, maybe our full support for Israel isn’t such a great thing. I mean, Canada, the UK and France put out a statement last week saying they might be moving towards sanctions or an arms embargo if Israel doesn’t curb its military activities. We didn’t see statements like this last year. So there is some movement happening, but it’s not enough. It’s not enough. And I really see Israel’s spiraling right now. I mean, there are a lot of people within Israel right now protesting on the streets too. Let’s not discount these people in Israel who are getting arrested. And I’m speaking about Israelis, Jewish Israelis,

Marc Steiner:

Right? Yes, right.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Who are being arrested. All of these people, they are on the streets and they’re calling it what it is. It’s a genocide. And that takes a lot of guts, and I think we need to encourage those people. Also,

Marc Steiner:

There’s stuff going on inside of Israel now among Jews and others, but among Jews in Israel at this moment who were protesting, it reminds me of what they’re facing, the danger they’re facing physically for saying, no, reminds me a great deal of what I experienced as a civil rights worker in the South. The absolute fear that you’re going to die from standing up to say, we have to end segregation. The same thing is happening, and I think it’s not being reported or talked about enough, which I’m going to try to do much more of, is getting those Jewish voices on from Israel, talking about why they’re standing up, and actually the huge numbers of people who are saying no. That’s really kind of an undercover story. I think.

Samira Mohyeddin:

I agree with you. I think we need to highlight the Jewish voices in particular who go to places like Mata and provide, put their bodies on the line that get in between these settlers, these rab settlers that are completely unhinged and have the support of the army at every turn. They’re putting their bodies on the line. There was actually a woman here in Canada, Anna Lipman, who just returned last week. She was doing what’s called protective presence within the occupied West Bank. She was there for months, has been arrested numerous times by the Israeli army. So I think it’s important to highlight those people also.

Marc Steiner:

So just as we wrap up, I’m going to come back to Canada here at the Bubble Law and talk a bit more about, so we can conclude with that, where this is going, who’s standing up to it, and where do you think what effect this is going to have?

Samira Mohyeddin:

The thing is that Toronto was one of the last areas to invoke this bubble legislation. So there was a suburb called Vaughn, which had it first. Then we have another sort of area called Brampton, which had it also, what was really interesting during the debates around this bubble legislation was that the counselors, the city counselors that were for it, were making comparisons to abortion clinics. So Canada had enacted bubble legislation for women’s reproductive health clinics so that women who were going in to have abortions wouldn’t need to look at fetuses torn up and all that stuff. And doctors who were performing these surgeries wouldn’t have people surround their homes and all this stuff. And so I think it’s a very churlish comparison because one act is against domestic and international law, the sale of occupied Palestinian lands. The other is about women’s reproductive health. But they sort of jumped on this and said, we’ve had bubble legislation before.

We need to have it for this. Now, there was a one particular counselor, her name was Diana Sacks, who was the only one that spoke the truth. Because what is really interesting about this mark is that no one ever talks about the root causes of why we even had this legislation come about. We had this legislation come about because people were selling stolen Palestinian land inside synagogues. People weren’t ever protesting in front of synagogues willy-nilly. There was no reason to. But when you make your synagogue into a place of crime, well then people are going to protest in front of it. So that is the real problem that I have, that the root causes are never talked about. But I really firmly believe that this bylaw is not going to stop anyone from protesting. It really won’t.

Marc Steiner:

So you’ll be out there.

Samira Mohyeddin:

I’ll be out there covering it. I mean, this was the 85th protest held in Toronto since October 8th.

Marc Steiner:

Around is Israel Palestine, you mean around boron? Gaza,

Samira Mohyeddin:

Yes. Toronto has had more protests than any other city in the whole of North America.

Marc Steiner:

Interesting.

Samira Mohyeddin:

And it really is, in a lot of ways, I think people need to pay more attention to this city. It is ground zero for what is going on in Israel Palestine.

Marc Steiner:

So what we’re going to do is pay more attention to you. So we can talk more about this since it’s ground zero and you’re in ground zero, so there’s so much more to talk about. But we’re going to link to your broadcast where you really, so people can hear what you have to say and what you’re saying. It’s called From the Desk, Samira Mohyeddin. It’s just an amazing, great program, very animated, very deep. You’ll enjoy it. And Samira, I want to thank you once again for joining us. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you despite the heaviness of what we have to face in our conversations. So we’ll keep up the fight and we’ll stay in touch.

Samira Mohyeddin:

Thank you so much, mark. It’s really great speaking with you all. Take care.

Marc Steiner:

And once again, I want to thank Samira Mohyeddin for joining us today. And we’ll be linking to her work so you can see it for yourself. It’s really intense and deeply intellectual and dives deep into subjects. Be a well worth a watch for you. And we’re going to bring you more updates from Samira, and we’re going to be talking to her again, as we said during the end of our conversation. And thanks to David Hebdon for running the program today, and Alina Nek for working her magic and editing and the titleless killer of our for making it all work behind the scenes. And everyone here at Real News for making this show possible. Please let me know what you thought about, what you heard today, what you’d like us to cover. Just write to me at mss@therealnews.com and I’ll get right back to you. Once again, thank you to our guests, mayor. So for the crew here at The Real News, I’m Marc Steiner. Stay involved. Keep listening, and take care.

This post was originally published on The Real News Network.