Workers at the shipping company UPS have just ratified a union contract that secures wage increases and extreme heat protections for more than 340,000 employees across the country. The deal marks a major win for what organizers have dubbed “hot labor summer,” in which labor fights led by groups ranging from auto workers to Hollywood actors have made headlines in recent months. UPS workers called attention in particular to the dangers posed by soaring temperatures and unsafe working conditions — a key issue in contract negotiations.
The five-year deal bumps up hourly wages for all employees, ends a two-tier wage system that allowed UPS to pay new drivers less, and eliminates mandatory overtime on drivers’ days off. UPS has also agreed to equip vehicles purchased after January 2024 with air conditioning and to retrofit existing cars with fans, vents, and exhaust heat shields. Leaders at the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the union representing UPS workers, have called the contract “the most lucrative agreement the Teamsters have ever negotiated at UPS.”
“This contract will improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of workers,” said Sean O’Brien, president of the Teamsters union. “This is the template for how workers should be paid and protected nationwide, and nonunion companies like Amazon better pay attention.”
The deal was approved by 86.3 percent of unionized workers at UPS. Teamsters said that it received the highest number of votes ever seen for a Teamsters contract at UPS.
The new agreement highlights how extreme heat has raised the stakes for labor organizing this summer. Relentless heat and humidity in the South, a heat dome stifling the central U.S., and the hottest June and July recorded in world history have created especially dangerous conditions for workers. Heat-related health risks heighten exponentially for people who have to work outdoors or without air conditioning. In the past few months, workers from Greece to Texas have responded by staging walkouts, going on strike, and demanding greater heat protections for workers.
UPS drivers and warehouse workers say that record-breaking heat waves have rendered the company’s 12-hour workdays and unrealistic productivity benchmarks downright deadly. UPS previously refused to install air conditioning in delivery trucks, claiming that it wouldn’t be feasible due to their frequent stops. “When you open the bulkhead door to go to the back to look for packages, it’s like running into a brick wall — it’s so hot,” said Rick Johnson, a driver who has worked at UPS for 28 years, in a Teamsters video. “You can’t stay back there with the doors closed or you’ll pass out.”
UPS Teamsters and workers hold a rally in downtown Los Angeles on July 19, 2023.
AP Photo / Damian Dovarganes
Union workers praised the contract for finally including vital protections for drivers working in sweltering conditions. “The A/C in the trucks is something I never thought I would see,” said Keith Short, a UPS worker who participated in the Teamsters strike at UPS in 1997, in a Teamsters video.
A tentative agreement reached between UPS and the Teamsters union last month averted what would have been the largest single-employer strike in U.S. history. UPS workers transport about $3.8 billion worth of goods each day, equal to about 5 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
In addition to protecting workers from heat, the contract immediately bumps up all wages by $2.75 per hour, with total wage increases adding up to an additional $7.50 per hour over the next five years. All existing and new part-time employees will receive minimum wages of $21 per hour. The deal also guarantees union members will receive Martin Luther King Jr. Day as a full holiday for the first time, and creates thousands of new jobs during the length of the contract.
UPS called the contract a “win-win-win agreement” when the Teamsters first announced the tentative agreement last month. “This agreement continues to reward UPS’s full- and part-time employees with industry-leading pay and benefits while retaining the flexibility we need to stay competitive, serve our customers and keep our business strong,” the company said in a statement at the time.
The contract will go into effect as soon as one outstanding supplemental agreement for a local Teamsters chapter in Florida is renegotiated and ratified.
The world of higher education has been in shock this past week after West Virginia University President E. Gordon Gee announced plans to dramatically cut academic programs and jobs in the coming year. “West Virginia University, a crucial institution in one of the nation’s most impoverished states, is poised to jettison all of its faculty dedicated to teaching Spanish, French, Chinese and other foreign languages,” Nick Anderson reports at The Washington Post. “The state’s largest public university also is moving toward elimination of a master’s degree program in creative writing and a doctoral program in mathematics, among other proposed cuts, in response to declining enrollment and what university officials call a ‘structural’ budget deficit of $45 million. In all, 32 of the university’s 338 majors on its Morgantown campus would be discontinued and 7 percent of its faculty eliminated under a plan made public last week.” If WVU proceeds with the proposed cuts, the impact on campus workers—student employees, grad workers, faculty, staff, facilities workers—and the local economy will be massive. What brought WVU to this crisis point? And what can be done to fight back? In this urgent episode, we talk with: Leslie Wilber, an organizer with West Virginia Campus Workers who graduated with a Master of Fine Arts degree from WVU earlier this year; Morgan King, a recent graduate of WVU, a Fulbright Scholar, and a Marshall Scholar; Dr. Jessie Wilkerson, associate professor and Joyce and Stuart Robbins Chair of History at WVU, a member of the West Virginia Campus Workers union, and the author of To Live Here, You Have to Fight: How Women Led Appalachian Movements for Social Justice.
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Leslie Wilber:
My name is Leslie Wilber. I graduated from WVU’s MFA program in creative writing last May 2023. And while I was at West Virginia University, I was also a member and an organizer with West Virginia Campus Workers.
Morgan King:
Hi, my name is Morgan King and I am a recent alum from WVU. I graduated a few years back with a Bachelor’s of civil engineering and a minor in political science. And since then I’ve been fortunate to be a Fulbright Scholar in Spain and a Marshall Scholar in the United Kingdom.
Jessie Wilkerson:
Hi, my name is Jessie Wilkerson and I am a professor at West Virginia University in the history department and I’ve been here since 2020. I’m also a member of the West Virginia Campus Workers Union.
Maximillian Alvarez:
All right, welcome everyone to another episode of Working People. A podcast about the lives, jobs, dreams, and struggles of the working-class today. Brought to you in partnership with In These Times magazine and The Real News Network. Produced by Jules Taylor and made possible by the support of listeners like you. Working People is a proud member of the Labor Radio Podcast network. If you’re hungry for more worker and labor-focused shows like ours, follow the link in the show notes and go check out the other great shows in our network. And please support the work that we’re doing here at Working People so we can keep growing and keep bringing y’all more important conversations every week.
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My name is Maximillian Alvarez and we are recording on Friday, August 18 and we’ve got a very urgent episode for y’all today. As you heard, we are honored and grateful to have Leslie, Morgan, and Jessie on the call today. All are currently or formerly affiliated with West Virginia University, which you have all no doubt seen, has been in the news this past week and it is not good news. In fact, it’s incredibly devastating and horrifying news and we’ve had a lot of folks asking us about it, if we could do an episode on it, and hear from folks working on campus about what is going on at WVU, with these massive proposed cuts to programs.
Frankly, it feels like a lot of the university and campus community and the higher ed community across the country is in shock right now. We wanted to get Leslie, Morgan, and Jessie on, and I’m incredibly grateful to them for making time to do this, especially with everything else that they’re dealing with right now and that their colleagues and loved ones are dealing with right now. And we’re going to try over the next 50-60 minutes to give you guys as much on the ground perspective as we can. But for those who maybe haven’t heard the news or maybe have seen little tidbits on social media, I wanted to set the table here for a second and read extensively from a new report that was published today, August 18 at the Washington Post.
This is a piece by Nick Anderson titled “WVU’s plan to cut foreign languages, other programs draws disbelief.” And so Anderson writes in this piece, which we will link it to in the show notes, “West Virginia University, a crucial institution in one of the nation’s most impoverished states, is poised to jettison all of its faculty dedicated to teaching Spanish, French, Chinese and other foreign languages. Students interested in learning a new tongue would be pointed to instructional alternatives — such as, possibly, an online app.
“The state’s largest public university also is moving toward elimination of a master’s degree program in creative writing and a doctoral program in mathematics, among other proposed cuts, in response to declining enrollment and what university officials call a “structural” budget deficit of $45 million. In all, 32 of the university’s 338 majors on its Morgantown campus would be discontinued and 7% of its faculty eliminated under a plan made public last week.
‘We are going through an existential crisis in higher education,’ E. Gordon Gee, WVU’s president since 2014, told The Washington Post in an interview Wednesday, ‘and we happen to be on the point of the spear.’ Gee said cuts are essential to free up resources for programs in higher demand such as forensics, engineering and neuroscience. Amid declining public confidence in higher education, Gee said, universities must earn back trust. ‘The people of the state are telling us what they want,’ he said. ‘And for once, we’re listening to them.’
“But the recommendations have angered and scared professors and left students disillusioned. ‘It’s come as a major shock and a major blow to the morale of many of my peers,’ said Christian Adams, 18, a sophomore from Clarksburg, W.Va., who wants to major in Chinese studies. ‘It’s heartbreaking.’
“The proposed cuts are preliminary, and some academic units are appealing the recommendations. But university officials aim to have WVU’s Board of Governors act on a package of cuts as early as Sept. 15. ‘We’re going to do it with speed,’ said Gee, who plans to step down in 2025. ‘Our board will look at it, and then the threat will be behind us. We will have moved into an investment strategy again.’ Any cuts would not affect fall semester classes. Faculty cuts would take effect in May, officials said, with contingency plans to help students in discontinued programs finish their degrees.
“But enrollment has slid nearly every year for the past decade, with the pandemic exacerbating the problem. In fall 2022, the system head count was little more than 27,000, with 24,741 on the flagship campus. About 42 percent of undergraduates in Morgantown are from West Virginia. The in-state charge this year for tuition and fees is about $9,600. Those from out of state pay about $27,000. Those figures don’t count housing and food.
“A Chronicle of Higher Education analysis found WVU’s debt has risen more than 50 percent since 2014, to $962 million in 2022. Meanwhile, the Chronicle found, state appropriations for WVU fell nearly 36 percent from 2013 to 2022. Republicans have controlled the state legislature since 2015.”
So again, apologies for reading so much for y’all at the top of the episode but I wanted to make sure that we had a shared basis of understanding of what’s going on here. I’m not saying that the Washington Post’s reporting is definitive or even preferable but I do think it had a lot of the essential information. And again, we will link to that piece in the show notes for this episode. But without further ado, I’m going to shut up and I want to toss things back to our incredible panelists and ask first, Leslie, starting with you, if we could say a bit more for listeners about you three and your respective relationships to WVU.
Tell us a bit more about what this institution has meant for you personally, what your experience there has been, and then if you could tell us what the hell this past week has looked like through your eyes.
Leslie Wilber:
Thank you so much. So I came to Morgantown, West Virginia three years ago to start my MFA in creative writing. It’s a creative workshop-based program as MFA programs are. And something that the people who aren’t in the English department and perhaps aren’t at WVU, might not realize is how important the MFA students at West Virginia University are to teaching and making the English department run. Most years, our cohort is nine students and it’s a three-year program, so at any time there’s going to be about 27 MFA students. Each of those students will typically teach two sections of composition per semester. The cap last May was raised from 22 students per section to 24 students per section.
So each graduate student in the English department, including the MFA students, are teaching about 48 students most semesters. And those are all undergraduate students. During my time at West Virginia University, which again ended in May, I was super fortunate to have incredible mentorship by the creative writing faculty, my thesis director Glenn Taylor. I was able to work with Katie Ryan at the Appalachian Prison Book Project and the Higher Education Prison Initiative, which is an incredible, incredible program that has ties to West Virginia University.
And of course I was able to become — I am rambling a little bit — But I was able to become involved with the union organizing here. Which I’m also very grateful for and work with incredible and very experienced union organizers like Jessie. While I understood that the English department was going to have some big changes coming — We knew that we were under review again last May. They announced that composition courses would have 24 rather than 22 students in them — I was really shocked to find out that the MFA program was suggested to be discontinued.
MFA programs, particularly those that are fully funded, that is our tuition is paid and we work as graduate teaching assistants or graduate assistants for a stipend, those tend to be across the board pretty competitive and popular programs. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been any shortage of applicants or interest in the program. And I heard the night before the announcement a friend texted me to let me know that the MFA program was slated for discontinuance and I was really shocked by that.
Morgan King:
So I was born and raised in Charleston, West Virginia. Growing up, West Virginia University had such a profound effect on every aspect of West Virginia’s culture. I would, as a kid, get so excited to watch WVU basketball games. I was a really nerdy kid as well. So by the time I got to high school, if you asked me what my favorite subject was, I would say equally math and Spanish. So when it came time to apply to college, I did what a lot of kids do in West Virginia, which is look to WVU. I applied nowhere else and got into the engineering program and registered immediately for political science and international relations classes because I was really interested in this opportunity that I had to study multiple disciplines.
When I talked to other schools in the country, when I said, well, I’m interested in both of these subjects, they said, well, you’ve got to pick one. You can’t do both of them. And when I came to WVU and toured, they were so receptive to me pursuing interdisciplinary subjects that, in my opinion, go very well together. At the root of it, it’s all problem solving. So when I was a student at WVU, I took many classes in Spanish up to the higher 300 levels. I was shy of a minor, took political science classes, and received a minor in that. And then ultimately studied civil and environmental engineering because looking at environmental policy problems locally and around the world was what I was so passionate about.
And it made me want to explore the world more and learn more about global citizenship, which was a value that I felt was really instilled in the different clubs that I participated in, like Model United Nations and in the classes from the really great faculty in the departments that I was in. If I hadn’t had access to those Spanish classes especially, I never would’ve had the chance to apply to the Fulbright program that I did, let alone get accepted because of the language requirements. And so it’s been really shocking to me this past week to see the university proposed such reckless cuts.
Language is so critical. It’s the root of all of our communication. And to cut that off is to isolate our school, our state, then from the world. And it’s, frankly not disappointing, but outrageous to even suggest that these cuts should be made and really disappointing because I never would be where I am today and I never would’ve had the opportunities that I’ve had, had it not been for some of the very programs that WVU administration is proposing to cut.
Jessie Wilkerson:
That was so powerful, Morgan and Leslie. So I got to WVU in 2020 right at the height of the pandemic. And I had been at the University of Mississippi for six years before coming here and I couldn’t wait to get to WVU. My areas of interest and scholarship are in Appalachian history, labor and working class history, and women’s history. And what better home for, especially Appalachian and labor history, is there than West Virginia? And there was so much excitement around that scholarship about Appalachia but that they also see Appalachia as part of the larger country and the world. And the incredible students here that I met on my visits. I was so excited to join the faculty here and that’s still the case. I have amazing students here.
And I wanted to say that when I got here, the first class I taught was a 20th century US history course for undergrads. And so many of those students had been recently standing on picket lines with their teachers in West Virginia. And students here understood the value of a union and I didn’t have to explain much about that; They already knew it and they understood that history and those who didn’t, they had students in the class who talked to them about working-class history in West Virginia in the past but all the way up to their lifetimes as the teachers went on strike.
And so there are so many reasons I was excited to come here. And I also want to say that I fundamentally believe in public higher education. For the side that Leslie and Morgan have talked about, that public higher ed serves the people of our state. It serves often many working-class kids. Most people in this country go to school relatively close to their homes. That’s the vast majority of students who end up going to college or university. And I really believe in our shared resources and this is the people’s university in West Virginia. And I fundamentally believe in that. So my reaction to these cuts …
And actually let me say one other thing first, Max. So I believe in public higher education. I also believe in public sector jobs and defending public sector work. Our university is the biggest employer in Morgantown. It’s one of the big employers in West Virginia. My spouse works as a staff person in mail services here at WVU. And these are people who make hourly wages. They’re not getting rich on these jobs. $14-$20 is what they’re making but they get health insurance and they get retirement and it’s considered a stable job. And those jobs beyond the faculty jobs are also really important. And we don’t know what those cuts are going to look like yet. That should be coming out in the next month or so. And I suspect it could be as bad or even worse because cuts to staff don’t make the news the way that cuts to, say tenured and tenure track faculty do. So I wanted to say that.
So when this news came out I was really angry because I know how much this is going to hurt people that I care about, people that are my colleagues who’ve spent many, many years in their disciplines, becoming experts, who are really great teachers, who care a lot about this state and about this place. And that they’re facing facing mass layoffs and the consequences of that on people’s lives. So that’s the reaction I’ve been having. I also have been really heartened by the outpouring of support and especially the student support for faculty who potentially are going to face these layoffs. West Virginia United Student Union has been organizing. They have a march planned on Monday.
And that really gives me a lot of hope that students are showing up and saying, we want to defend our public resource. We want to defend what belongs to all of us. And so I’ve been angry and I have been surprised by how extensive the proposed cuts are. Although I have to say that this didn’t come out of nowhere. Since I got here and in my last institution, we were facing austerity measures and that’s been the trend for a long time. Here at WVU, the reality since I got here has been that we were experiencing attrition in our departments. We removed phones, the landlines from our offices, did all these little cost saving measures to try to save money.
We’re not supposed to be printing, which is wild when you’re in a field where you are a writer and the library has had to suspend buying books and resources. The everyday level has been really tough for a long time and the morale has been low and now we’re seeing, or we’re hearing that our colleagues could lose their jobs and there may be more layoffs to come. Which is why I think West Virginia Campus Workers is so important but I’m going to stop right there.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Well, I’m actually going to pick right up on that but before I do, I wanted to sneak in another plug. Longtime listeners of the show will recognize Jessie’s voice because we actually did do an episode together a while back, which we will link to in the show notes where we spoke about Jessie’s incredible book, which is titled aptly for the moment that we’re in right now, To Live Here, You Have to Fight: How Women Led Appalachian Movements for Social Justice. Cannot recommend that book enough. Also, I want to, like I said, pick up on what you all were saying there and communicate to people that what we are talking about here with WVU in Morgantown, what this institution means as a site of work, as a place of work, upon which so many people’s livelihoods depend.
And I feel like all three of you have touched on different facets of this. Because Morgan, you were talking about how the students who come through to get their education at WVU, that’s essential training that you’re going to need to find employment outside of school. And to pursue your passions, your dreams, to help the world as best you see fit with the training you get at the flagship university through the programs that are now being put on the chopping block. But also, Leslie, as you talked about, we also have a lot of people working — And Jessie, you also mentioned this — On campus, right? We’ve got graduate workers teaching courses, we’ve got faculty at different levels, tenure, tenure track, non-tenure track.
We’ve got staff in the offices in the libraries. We’ve got facilities folks keeping the campus clean and making the facilities run and doing maintenance, all that kind of stuff. To say nothing of the broader campus community that has an economy that depends on the people who are going to, attending, and living and working at this university as well. And we’re talking about a town, a state, a working-class population that has been taking hit after hit after hit. Two years ago on this show, we spoke with a worker, now laid off at the Mylan now Viatris plant. The pharmaceutical plant that had been in Morgantown, an institution for over half a century closed down. So that was another major blow to working people in Morgantown.
And now we have these cuts at WVU and we’ve still had a pandemic in between all of that. I wanted to ask if y’all could say a bit more about… The way that you framed it, Jessie, is right. Viatris was a plant closure, this in many ways is like a plant closure. The entire university is not closing down but a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. The economy’s going to take a hit. A lot of people are going to be hurt by this. So I was wondering if we could go back around the table and say a bit more about the university as a place of work. Who is working at this university, what does that look like, and what are these cuts going to mean for that diverse ecosystem of working people in and around Morgantown?
Leslie Wilber:
I would also point out that besides you’re talking about the larger town of Morgantown and then you’re talking about university employees, this is fresh in my mind because I’m doing temp work at the beginning of the semester for one of the contracted companies that WVU hires to run some of its services. So things like food services, the bookstore events, those aren’t things where people are actually getting a paycheck from the university, but those are a lot of jobs that are contracted by the university. So there’s also those workers as well.
I would say that one of the things I find, well, there’s a few things, but one of the things that I find particularly heartbreaking about the timing of this is when I think about my own experience. Again as a graduate worker in a three-year program, announcing this last Friday, the week before classes start, I think about the people who are coming into my program, the MFA program coming into other programs. The MFA program in particular, you have people who are coming here with the expectation of not only being able to incubate their creative works for three years and have the time to develop as emerging artists but also thinking that you’re going to have a job that will pay not very much, but at least some of your bills. Even if it’s paying quite poorly for the next three years.
So you think you have this plan for the next three years and then getting here and having the rug pulled out from under you. And I know as far as I’ve heard that in the English department, graduate workers stipends have not been decreased but in other departments, graduate workers have been forced essentially into decreased stipends in order to continue their study. So people who are partway through a program are being asked to sign new contracts. And not to go on about this too much but I would really emphasize the fact that most of the graduate workers at West Virginia University are wildly undercompensated for their work.
Again, in the English department, most of us teaching two sections per semester in the MFA program, folks are making a stipend of $16,750. PhD students make a little more, the MA students make a little less. So there’s just a whole batch of people. Also, if you look at the math department, if you look at the music department, these graduate workers coming in thinking that they have at least a couple of years of their lives planned out and some funding for their lives and then having the rug again ripped out from underneath them.
And then as recently as last year, we got a new professor in the creative writing program who’s an incredible memoirist, Brian Broome. They put some effort into recruiting this writer into this mess. And so I think about the professors or the staff or anybody who’s been recruited to this institution when they know that there’s this crisis, whether it’s real or manufactured right on the horizon.
Jessie Wilkerson:
Can I jump in real quick because I want to add another piece to what Leslie was talking about. Because Leslie has laid out what life looks like for grad workers whose stipends are very low and they have stagnated and are lower than many of our peer institutions. And then we also have teaching assistant faculty who are on usually yearly or maybe a few years of a contract. They’re not tenured, they’re contingent faculty who also are making usually around, I think $50,000 a year. And then of course, we talked about staff making $14, $15, $16 an hour. And I want to contrast that with what’s been happening at the upper levels.
Over the last decade, the salaries of administrators have grown and the number of administrators, those offices have expanded. And those are people who on the lower end are making around $300,000. And then you have the president of the university who’s making $800,000 and is getting retention bonuses. I don’t think it’s every year, but maybe every few years. And so I would be curious to hear Morgan talk a little bit about that as well because I’ve seen on social media a lot of students pointing out the class politics of all of this.
And we keep hearing about enrollment declines and we keep hearing about the pandemic funding is drying up, and it’s been suggested that faculty are no longer valued by the people of West Virginia. And so it’s our fault that people don’t really care about these programs anymore. And then meanwhile, you have these administrators who make a lot of money who also made decisions about the budget and who’ve left us with a massive deficit. You pointed that out, Max, or you read the part about the deficit in the Washington Post piece.
So WVU was on track to expand and spending a lot of money to expand and then suddenly in February we start hearing about, oh no, we have this projected deficit and we have to start layoffs immediately. So we hear all of these other reasons for what’s going on but what I’m seeing and hearing with students is that they’re pretty clear-eyed about the class dynamic here. And so, not to put you on the spot, Morgan, but I’ve seen you tweeting about this and I wondered your perspective and what you’re hearing from students and other West Virginians.
Maximillian Alvarez:
I would like to say also before we toss it to Morgan, to anyone listening, go read the rest of that WaPo article because they talk about how President Gee, who came on in 2014 was talking all this shit about how they were going to build up the university, enrollments were going to keep going up, and then they haven’t. They’ve been going the opposite direction, but they’ve continued to build. And now he’s out here making it seem like the problem is that a bunch of liberal faculty have gotten too woke or some shit. And the people of the state don’t want us funding language programs or creative arts. I don’t know, this smells like bullshit to me, but I’m speaking for myself. But I wanted to encourage folks to read the full article that we linked to in the show notes. So Morgan, take it away.
Morgan King:
Leslie and Jessie’s points are spot on and it tells this story of exploitation that our state is no stranger to. For goodness’ sake, our governor was once the only billionaire in our state and it’s this story that continues where these older white men in power are those that continue to retain the most wealth and hoard it. And it’s the story that we’ve seen in West Virginia’s history, is essentially an extraction colony. West Virginia is one of the poorest states in the country, one of the most isolated, and we’ve seen at all levels of the different power dynamics and class dynamics in our state, this divide. And it’s been really interesting to watch it from this perspective at WVU because it’s repeating history.
It’s the same old same old of the old boys club that we see well across the country and world. And on top of that, on top of the excessive salaries of administration that isn’t being cut while they’re asking faculty and staff that make under a hundred thousand dollars or much less to lose their jobs or take cuts. It’s frankly insulting to these programs and to students that have depended on these faculty members for their opportunity to have an education and pursue a career.
And it’s going to continue this feedback loop that we’re seeing from our state legislature. But now also we’re seeing from WVU of not investing properly in our residents or in our students or in our workers, and then we’re going to see more people leave. We’re going to see fewer people come, and it’s going to continue that story of West Virginia as an extraction and resource colony that only benefits the wealthiest.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Man. That’s spot on but very, very depressing to think about. I want to keep this next question broad so that y’all can pick it up wherever you think is best. But we’ve already started talking about the path that led us here. And I want to broaden that out a little bit and talk about whether it’s from the university administration side or from the student side. But talk to us a bit more about the conditions that have brought us to this crisis point and how you yourselves and your respective corners of the campus community have seen those conditions firsthand. I also want to add, if I can editorialize for a second, as a former grad student worker at the University of Michigan, a union member with GEO, they are also still technically on strike.
My alma mater right now is threatening to replace graduate student workers who continue their strike into the fall semester. So speaking only for myself and no one else, kindly, University of Michigan administration, go fuck yourselves. But when I think about the elephant in the room, when I listen to and read President Gee’s rationale for these cuts, it seems so ridiculous. Because we’re talking about enrollments are declining, university’s debt is exploding, we’re not getting the enrollment numbers that we want. And so we have to prioritize the programs that the students who are coming say that they want. But the thing that’s not mentioned is, I don’t know, speaking as a millennial when you saddle entire generations with debt because you have categorically, catastrophically, and systematically defunded public education for the past 50 years.
And every state dollar that has been taken away from public education has been put on students and their families in the form of debt that we will never be able to repay, the vast majority of us that is. So eventually you’re going to see the results of that. The chickens are going to come home to roost because younger generations have seen our generation grow up, have all this debt, have shitty job prospects, stagnant wages. And they’re going to say, well, it’s probably not worth me taking that risk to take on all this debt and enter a job market where I probably won’t find the job that I’ll need to pay it back. And so if we reinvest in higher education as a public good, if we admit as a society that doing the opposite for the past 50 years is a catastrophic failure of social policy, and we can do that.
It’s okay to say we were wrong and that this was a stupid idea and that it was a catastrophic idea and we need to fix it. That’s okay. We can do that. We don’t have to keep going down this road for Pete’s sake. But that’s also a big thing that seems to be missing in the calculus for these cuts and the way that mainstream media is talking about it. But again, I wanted to put that in there speaking for myself as I was reading all these articles,and no one was mentioning that, it was driving me nuts. I want to toss it back to Leslie and ask if the three of you could say a little more from your perspective, your vantage points. What brought us to this crisis? How deep does this go? And how have you seen those conditions piling up firsthand?
Leslie Wilber:
So I’d like to speak to a policy issue first and then talk a little bit about creative writing. So last year when WVU, in the winter/spring, was beginning to look at the tenure year review process, some of us at West Virginia campus workers we’re beginning to do some of the research around that. And I would say that one thing we haven’t touched on yet is the use of outside consultants. West Virginia University has a more than $800,000 contract with RPK Consulting Group. They’re a consulting group that has worked with various colleges and university systems that have been working to dismantle tenure. They were, I believe, the Kansas Board of Regents, the UNC system.
If you go to the RPK groups website you can see a list of their clients. And if you were to Google them you would see any news story that you see them in. It tends to be about a university that is having some element of tenure or its structure dismantled. Speaking to creative writing and what it was like on the ground in our program, one of the things that frustrates me about this is the assumptions that the administration is laying out about undergraduate students are really quite ugly. They’re making assumptions or forwarding this idea that undergraduates aren’t intellectually curious or creative and are, as Morgan was saying, looking at education in this very extractive way. Where you put a coin in, you get a token out or whatever.
And I would say that my own experience with teaching creative writing here, teaching fiction, and other graduate workers teaching creative writing, faculty teaching undergraduate creative writing here, those classes are in demand. They fill up fast. My cohort, we had a big plan to promote our creative writing classes and we made flyers and everything and the classes were full before we could even promote them. These are popular classes. In my fiction class, I had students from West Virginia, from Appalachia who were interested in telling Appalachian stories. I had students from Columbia.
I had students from all over different parts of the US who were in different majors: Engineering students, computer science students, of course, English, history, students in the humanities. Whether or not people are majoring in a world language or majoring in music or majoring in creative writing, these are things that are valuable. And if a student can’t spend their undergraduate years exploring new creative practices, learning new things, developing new ideas through studying a wide variety of disciplines, when are people supposed to do that? When do you have the freedom to do that? And so I would say that there is this false perception that there isn’t a demand for these courses and these programs when there is an extremely high demand for some of these courses.
Morgan King:
I’d love to build on that too in the discourse around the outside consultant that was hired to propose these cuts. What’s crazy to me is that our university is filled with academics that know how to collect data. They know how to analyze it. They know how to make decisions and recommendations based on that. Why are we outsourcing this when we have the skillsets available in house? The university hires faculty members that do institutional research and it seems insulting to those well salaried and well-educated researchers that WVU employs. And in particular, it’s wild to me too, given all of this other knowledge and research that we have in-house that they would even consider these austerity measures.
We’ve seen over around the world austerity measures failing whether it’s governments or businesses and it creates more poverty, it creates more inequality, it creates more unemployment, and it really only benefits the rich and powerful. So maybe I’m not surprised because it continues that narrative that I was talking about earlier where it’s the same people that hoarded the most wealth, that hoarded the most power, that want to retain it. And so despite all of this evidence we have in-house and all of this training that could recommend actual solutions to address this budgetary crisis, they’re outsourcing it to see how it would benefit those in power the most.
Jessie Wilkerson:
These are all really important points. And Max, as I think about your question about how did we get here. I’s really complex and a lot of people who are a lot smarter than me have talked about it and have analyzed it. But I’m going to boil it down to what I understand it to be. Which is in part that private interests like the RPK group or contractors and others have captured public funds. And so that’s been happening for a while now and we haven’t done a great job of organizing to defend public higher ed and our common good. That’s also related to the student loan debt crisis. That’s another way of privatizing the public good. I’m thinking of the work of Tressie McMillan Cottom in lower ed and Dennis Hogan’s excellent analysis of what’s going on in higher ed.
And it’s Dennis Hogan that talks about student loan debt as a disciplining measure. So we see the rise of student loan debt and the increase in tuition after the mass protest of the liberation era of the ’60s and ’70s. Because what we have to remember, public higher ed is a space where a lot of people organized in movements in the ’60s and ’70s, and those were really crucial spaces. So then you’ve seen over the last decades, these disciplining measures and trying to contain that energy. And there are people organizing around that. West Virginia Campus Workers has organized with American Federation of Teachers Academic or AFTA, Scholars for a New Deal for Higher Education, and Higher Ed Labor United have organized United Campus Workers across the southeast.
So it’s starting to happen. I’m thinking of my friends in Tennessee who stopped a huge effort by the governor in Tennessee to privatize all facilities jobs and contract those jobs out to a firm in Chicago. And they were able to lobby to stop that. It would’ve affected the universities but also all state facilities. And that’s why I always say to people, we need to be organized because we don’t know what’s coming down the pipeline but something is because it’s happening all over the place. And what we’re seeing at WVU is a really dramatic case. It’s happening at a warp speed and has taken a lot of us by surprise but this is unfortunately probably where we’re headed at other places as well.
And then the other thing I was thinking about, Max, is how this conversation — From the top here at WVU — This argument sometimes implicit, sometimes explicit, that university education is solely to get you a job. It is jobs training, and there’s been an argument that we should get back to our industrial education model as a land-grant institution. I have no problem with job training and the idea that that’s what some people want and need but they’re pitting that against another model: the liberal arts model or the education for the arts and education for education’s sake. And also there’s this idea of jobs training but then you have to pay. College is more expensive than ever so you have to pay thousands of dollars in order to be qualified to get a job that more than likely is not going to pay off that debt very quickly, if at all. So that to me is some bigger issues.
Maximillian Alvarez:
You are still as a worker, you are going to on average earn more with a college degree than without. So it’s a perverse incentive for working people trying to determine how they’re going to carve a path to a comfortable, dignified future. It’s like you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Don’t get a college degree, you’re going to be that more disadvantaged in the job market. If you do get a college degree, you’re going to be that much more saddled with debt. Right? It’s a really frustrating and ridiculous situation that we find ourselves in but we have to fight back where and however we can and we have to support each other where and however we can.
You guys know if you listen to this show, the academic labor movement has a very big place in my heart. And we have spoken to folks, as I said on strike, grad workers on strike at the University of Michigan. We had the largest higher ed strike in US history last year at the University of California system, 48,000 academic workers on strike. We had strikes and unionization efforts from The New School to the University of Illinois at Chicago. We had Rutgers faculty go on strike for the first time in school history. It’s not all doom, gloom, and awful things coming from the top. There will always be a fightback coming from the bottom. The question is, which is going to have more force behind it?
And with the last few minutes that I’ve got of the three of you, I know I got to let you go. And I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today. I wanted to ask if you had any final messages for President Gee, the Board of Governors at WVU, and the broader public about what we will lose if these cuts go through? What the campus community will lose? What campus workers and what American society will lose if these cuts go through? What happens now? And what folks out there listening in and outside of West Virginia can do to stand in solidarity with y’all and your fellow campus community members there?
Leslie Wilber:
If I had a message to Gee and the rest of the administration, it would be that despite what they’re saying, West Virginians, students, and people who are paying attention, seem to understand that their messaging and what they’re doing is in bad faith. The undergraduate community here, the people of West Virginia are savvier than they are being given credit for by this administration. And people understand that they are trying to rob students, particularly students in this state of public resources that are very much needed.
Morgan King:
For me, what I would say to Gordon Gee is that if he wants to create bad engineering in medical professionals, then he’ll go through with these cuts. He said that his priority is to open up funds for essential programs like engineering and some of the medical programs. And I’ll use doctors and engineers as an example; the doctors take a Hippocratic Oath to do no harm. I don’t know about you all but I’ve met so many doctors that don’t have both the emotional intelligence or the softer skills that are essential for providing care. It’s more than being able to pass a biology test. Professional engineers have the same thing. They have something called an engineer’s creed where they dedicate their professional knowledge to the advancement and betterment of public health, safety, and welfare.
And to be able to do that, you have to be well-rounded to be an effective engineer. And I know this firsthand from all of the engineering classes that I took. It was my world languages classes. It was the arts classes I took, dance classes and loved them, having grown up dancing. I took political science classes and international studies classes and those made me a stronger problem solver, a stronger critical thinker, listener, speaker, and ultimately made me more effective at analyzing what the impact of my projects in engineering would do. You can build a rocket, but if you don’t know what the impacts it’ll have on the surrounding communities, it’s frankly irrelevant if you can build that project.
And so we have to be able to analyze and assess our impacts on the social, the economic, and other aspects of the world. And so if Gordon Gee says he’s prioritizing these fields, then he will keep the programs that he’s trying to cut. And if I could also add, I’ve worked with a few alumni from WVU and we produced a letter drawing attention to some of these cuts. And we’re looking for more alumni across the country to sign. If you have any degree or certification from WVU, you’re more than welcome to sign. And we have a little short link you can go to called tinyurl.com/savewvu.
Jessie Wilkerson:
So what I would want to say to West Virginians, as someone who was a first generation college student who felt a lot of pressure to go to college in order to get a job but loved music — And so I was a music major first, and then I switched to becoming an English major because I loved books. And then I went on to study history — We deserve a robust, diverse education, and West Virginians deserve that. What we’re looking at is the possibility that working-class kids will have access to jobs training and wealthy kids will have access to universities where they can explore all of their vast interests. And I don’t think that’s the world I want to live in.
And so I know that people in West Virginia understand the value of a robust education. We saw it with the West Virginia teacher strike. People really, really have deep pride in this university and in their schools. And so I would ask those folks to call the administrators. You can find the phone numbers online, reach out to us. There’s going to be a student march on Monday at noon on campus nd I hope people show up to that. Reach out to the Board of Governors who make decisions about this university and let them know what you want out of a university. And then the last thing, my request is to check out the website, aftaacademics.org/wvcampusworkers. And you can find ways to get involved with West Virginia Campus Workers.
And you can also find many of the petitions there that various programs have put out as they start to make their appeals to save their programs. We need you. One more thing is I hope that my colleagues across the country will show up for us in whatever way you can. If that means your organization writing a letter for us or spreading the message about what’s happening here, retweeting the articles. Like I said, I don’t think this is distinctly about West Virginia. This is something that’s happening at a lot of places already, and if it hasn’t, it’s probably going to happen soon.
Most people often think of “union-busting” only in terms of overt and even illegal tactics like termination and intimidation, but most bosses first opt for subtler, more sophisticated activities to discourage worker organizing. Enter the “persuaders,” also known as union avoidance consultants—professional firms who offer bosses the specialized service of spreading union disinformation and sowing confusion in the ranks of workers. TRNN Associate Editor Mel Buer speaks with Dave Jamieson of The Huffington Post on the shady world of persuaders and what workers attempting to organize can expect if one shows up at their job.
Dave Jamieson has been HuffPost’s labor reporter since 2011. Read Jamieson’s HuffPost series on the union-busting industry here.
Studio Production: Adam Coley Post-Production: Alina Nehlich
Transcript
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Mel Buer:
Welcome back to another episode of the Real News Network podcast. My name is Mel Buer and I’m a staff reporter here at the Real News Network. I am so glad that you’re back with us.
The Real News is an independent, viewer supported nonprofit media network. We don’t take corporate cash, we don’t have ads, and we don’t put our reporting behind paywalls. To stay up to date on the important stories that we’re covering, sign up to our free newsletter at therealnews.com/signup. Follow us on social media and consider becoming a monthly sustainer at therealnews.com/donate.
Over the last couple of years, Libra Organizing has experienced a resurgence across the United States. High profile organizing drives, contract fights, and strikes have been given considerable airtime by local and national outlets, which in turn has exposed new audiences to the ways in which unions organize and fight for their working members.
Just as these audiences are learning about the American Labor Movement, they’re also learning about the ruthlessness of the employers who fight tooth and nail to prevent unions from gaining a foothold in the workplace. One of these union-busting tactics is to bring in outside union avoidance consultants, or persuaders, to try and sow doubt and discord among the unionizing employees.
As labor reporters, when looking into union drives and elections, we often hear stories of the union avoidance firms who come onto the shop floor and attempt to dissuade workers from organizing. This million dollar industry deploys armies of subcontractors to achieve these ends, and despite their reputation for derailing union drives across the country, the exact nature of the industry and the money that flows through it is harder to pin down.
With us today to talk about this elusive industry is Dave Jamieson, who has been HuffPost’s labor reporter since 2011. His recent five-part investigative series, the Persuaders, was just released at HuffPost and attempts to pull back the curtain on the union-busting industry. Before joining the DC Bureau, Dave was a staff writer at Washington City Paper and a freelancer contributing to Slate, the New Republic, the Washington Post, and Outside Magazine, among other outlets.
He’s won the Livingston Award for young journalists, the Hillman Foundation Sidney Award, and the Deadline Club Award for best business feature. He’s also the author of a nonfiction book, Mint Condition: How Baseball Cards Became an American Obsession. Welcome, Dave. Thanks for joining us today.
Dave Jamieson:
Good to be here, Mel.
Mel Buer:
Let’s get right into it. In your five-part series and one of the articles titled Inside Corporate America’s Favorite Union Busting Firm, you spent some time examining Labor Relations Institute, a notorious union buster who boasts thousands of successful anti-union campaigns. I myself learned about LRI when writing a story about a contentious and ultimately unsuccessful union drive at private equity backed Sabre Industries in Sioux City, Iowa back in 2022.
It’s kind of a gnarly beast to try and reach in and see what’s going on there. More broadly, can you shed some light on the firms, these union-busting firms? How do they usually operate? What’s the sort of process by which they get engaged in these anti-union campaigns?
Dave Jamieson:
So it’s a really interesting world. The whole system generally runs on subcontracting. You have the persuaders themselves who go into the workplace to talk to the workers and basically run a campaign against the union, which involves figuring out how individuals plan to vote, figure out who’s on the fence and who’s persuadable.
But to get those people, companies usually, employers usually go through firms like the Labor Relations Institute. LRI is probably the best known, I think. A lot of the big name companies like Dollar General, Cisco, Aramark, they over the years have all gone through LRI.
LRI, interestingly, I went down to Tulsa. They’re based in Broken Arrow, which is a suburb of Tulsa in Oklahoma, and it’s just this kind of dinky little office between a dog grooming shop and a bar, and it is just built on subcontracting.
So you, as an employer, reach out to LRI. LRI links you up with a persuader or a group of persuaders who are based all over the place. A lot of these folks are out of California. And LRI essentially just takes a cut. And what I was able to see generally in court documents is my best guess is LRI keeps about half of the fees.
So the kind of going rate in the industry these days is like 3,200 or 3,500 a day for a persuader. So a firm like LRI, you might be paying the 3,500 for Joe the persuader. About half of that is probably going to LRI and you’re essentially paying sort of a broker’s fee or an administrative fee. So firms like LRI, it’s very hard to get a handle on the money, in part because the disclosure requirements are really weak. But LRI has been dishing out in the millions each year to their subcontractors, so they probably have quite a bit of money coming in, especially as there have been a lot of union election petitions and a lot of organizing going on.
It’s not clear to me whether employers really know that they’re kind of paying a significant finder’s fee when they go through a firm like LRI, but that’s basically what they’re doing.
Mel Buer:
In your series, you kind of spend pretty significant amount of time laying out exactly what these union avoidance campaigns look like. You’ve touched on this briefly already in your first article in the series, Workers Wanted a Union, Then the Mysterious Men Showed Up, these persuaders often view their work in militaristic terms, which I also came across in my brief examination of LRI.
They have a white paper that you can find on their website essentially comparing union organizing drives to placing IEDs in the road in Iraq, which is a wild comparison to make. But these campaigns that they wage against workers are obviously very calculated with the express goal of keeping a union out of the workplace.
Can you just expand a little bit on this, what this looks like? And additionally, these consultants often have a background in the labor movement. A lot of times they come from organizing positions such as with the teamsters or, in my brief touch on it, with IBEW, and then they somehow, through whatever reasons, end up on the other side of the line there and start working as consultants.
Can you just give us a sense of how that plays into this calculation for how these campaigns work in the workplace?
Dave Jamieson:
Sure. So as the union organizer said to me, the consultants essentially run an organizing campaign like the union organizers, only in reverse. And I was able to see this in documents we got through records requests where essentially files where the consultants are creating daily notes, they’re building spreadsheets, they’re rating individuals on their levels of union support, usually on a scale of one to five say, where a one would be pro-company in their words, meaning anti-union, and five would be very pro-union.
And so you’re sort of mapping out the entire workplace, getting a feel for, okay, if the election was held today, how would it go? And crucially, who are our fencers, the folks on the fence and what is our sort of best line of persuasion for them? And so you see in a lot of these cases, their persuaders are writing files like Mel here grew up a mile from the facility. We think they’re concerned about job stability. They have a 10 year-old kid at home, so they want to make sure their job’s going to be there.
These are literally, that’s something that was in some of these files, a case like that where they’re really diving into workers’ personal lives to figure out what will be sort of the best argument against a union. And so they’re sort of trading notes on individual workers and they’re running a campaign hard on the ground right up until the ballots are cast.
So I think a lot of people assume this job is mostly about corralling workers in the break room and giving them a speech about how unions fail to deliver and you might never get a contract. You might end up going on strike, blah, blah, blah, and that is a big part of it. But what they’re also doing is this sort of behind-the-scenes work.
I mean literally, if you are in one of these meetings, you are being observed. They’re looking for cues on where your leanings are on a union. And so that is really sort of the more behind-the-scenes work that is going on. Of course, unions are doing something similar on their own end of, you want to know whether Joe is for the worker or against or if Joe is persuadable, what’s the best argument we can make to make Joe a union voter?
Big difference is that the union doesn’t have guaranteed access to the workers the way the employer does. The employer in mandatory fashion can require everybody come in and hear what our persuader has to say about why unions suck.
Mel Buer:
Well, and certainly the employer’s furnishing all of this information to these consultants in a way that maybe the unions don’t also have access. And certainly as part of my reporting, I’ve heard what happens inside these captive audience meetings. And it’s definitely one of those things where individuals are surveilled and are separated out based on how militant maybe they respond to these meetings. And certainly they seek to drive wedges in between this sort of burgeoning organizing solidarity on the shop floor.
And they use really sometimes vague language. They’re very good at manipulating conversation and toeing this line of what the language is. They are often saying, “We’re not discouraging you from joining this union,” even though there are giant posters on the wall that say vote no. But they use the language of, “We’re just trying to tell you the truth about what this looks like.”
And I think a lot of times coming from the labor movement, they can use that as a bit of authority to say, “Look, I did this and it did work,” or what have you. And I think that’s a huge piece of it. This really is kind of like a counterinsurgency in the workplace.
Dave Jamieson:
Most of these folks sort of hold themselves out as kind of neutral parties, even though they’re obviously hired by the employer, they’re paid thousands of dollars and they have a purpose in being there. They will say, “Hey, we’re just here to give the facts. I’ve been in this world and you may not know what a union is really like and how collective bargaining works, so I’m going to explain it to you.”
An interesting thing I saw in a lot of case files at the National Labor Relations Board, and I went back through years and years basically finding any case I could where these consultants ended up speaking, testifying in a hearing, often under subpoena. And in a lot of cases, the judge later wrote, I didn’t believe what this guy said because he insisted that he was a neutral party, even under testimony claimed he was there just to educate.
And so I actually talked to quite a few persuaders, the ones that would speak to me, and it is kind of a mixed bag from a personal standpoint. I was a lot more likely to believe you and what you had to say to me if you were upfront about the purpose of your work. And some of them are. I think others, for whatever reason, insist on hiding the ball, contrary to all logic.
Interestingly, I did, one persuader I interviewed and ended up writing about a guy named Joe Brock who used to be a teamster himself. He was a president at Local 830 in Philadelphia. I found him to be pretty forthcoming about his work and his experience, which is frankly a little refreshing. And he talked a bit about sort of the competitive nature of the job, right? They are running a campaign on the other side of the union. And if they’re being honest, they want to win.
And so even though a lot of these folks would say, even in board testimony that I don’t have a dog in this fight essentially, it’s the employee’s choice. I could see in their notes that were given over as part of subpoena that you are strategizing on how to defeat the union. You are trying to turn yes votes into no votes and maybe notes into no votes. And it’s all very clear. This all has a very clear purpose to it.
Mel Buer:
Wasn’t Joe Brock briefly the main character on Twitter last week for responding to some folks about being a proud union buster and brought up his-
Dave Jamieson:
Yeah. Brock defended his line of work. I think he felt that in my series, I tended to write about some of the more colorful characters. Like my first story was about speaking of colorful to persuaders who went into a workplace under fake names, Jack Black and Alex Green. And another common thread I saw in all my research was frankly, a lot of persuaders not being forthcoming about who they are. I’m not saying about lying about their identities, but it’s clear in a lot of case notes and in workers’ testimony under oath that they didn’t always know who they were talking to or they couldn’t get a last name out of the consultant.
And there are reasons why consultants might want to hide their last names. They have backgrounds that they may not want workers poking around. And some of them, many of them, as you mentioned earlier, come out of unions. One guy I saw on board testimonies, he was writing in his notes, so-and-so was asking my last name today, suggesting that he wasn’t telling workers his last name. And this was a union official who had been, whose union while he was there had been put in a trusteeship and he was sued under this alleged scheme of no-show jobs and whatnot. And that was his break from the labor movement, and he turned up consulting.
So there are certain things that I think they don’t want workers to know about. Now in this extreme case, these guys literally used aliases and workers did not know who they were dealing with. Workers testified months later at a hearing referring to this guy under his fake name because that is what they knew. And it turned out this gentleman had a recent felony conviction for stalking in Florida, what I think is relevant information that workers might want to know.
And frankly, I think someone with that history might have a hard time getting work if people know about that sort of history. And so yeah, it is a very interesting world of, in that case, sort of overt deception if you want to say. And also sort of a more general among other persuaders, well, they don’t need to know my whole story here.
Mel Buer:
Right. In your third article in the series, you focused on the tactics that Union Busters use specifically against immigrant workers, especially in the last couple of decades. The organizing in the workplace has really focused a lot on including and bringing in immigrant workers as a key point in the labor movement and a key point in many industries in this country, which is a net positive in my opinion.
What are some of the strategies that you found that are specifically targeted to dissuading immigrant workers from joining a union in the workplace, and how are consultants marketing themselves to these employers who use these tactics?
Dave Jamieson:
Yeah, it is a really sort of interesting sub-industry of the industry, which is why I wanted to write about it. This world of bilingual consultants who get called in basically when there’s a lot of Latino workers. And these are, in my research, turned out to be a lot of, in some cases, the most sort of lucrative campaigns on the consultant side because you’re talking about large facilities, say in food production, where there’s a lot of workers and a lot of them are Latin American immigrants.
And one case I wrote about was actually a small workplace in Philadelphia at a company called United Scrap Metal as a recycling facility where they brought in a bilingual consultant. And I had sort of their internal notes between the consultants and the company about sort of, how do we handle this? And it was just very interesting to see the consultants saying, “Well, we’ve done the breakdown and the support is primarily among the Honduran workers as opposed to the workers from Guatemala and El Salvador.”
And so they’re trying to get a read on the demographics at play during a union campaign. And one of the most interesting things I saw in all my research was in this case, I sort of developed this strategy of where, okay, we’re going to sort of equate the union with dictators, their words, from these workers’ home countries. And so the whole idea was to sort of appeal to workers’ backgrounds in a way that could make them question whether they could trust the union. And the union in this case was the Laborers International or LIUNA.
And so they actually created flyers equating the LIUNA with Juan Orlando Hernandez, the former president of Honduras who’s been indicted on drugs and arms charges in the US. And so these are the kinds of things you might see or hear about in a campaign involving immigrants that basically nobody hears about because this was a campaign that had nobody out on Twitter flogging support for the workers and that sort of thing.
It was just one of these many campaigns that kind of happens in the dark, and in this case it was around 30 workers and it was just kind of a sign of how far employers will sometimes go to prevent, in this case, really a couple dozen workers from collective bargaining. And workers, the union actually ended up winning that election two and-a-half years ago, but they still don’t have a contract. The litigation is still going on, the company is not bargaining, and now it’s in federal court, which can be a real mess for a union. So employers, they can and they do take it very far to the bitter end.
Mel Buer:
We see this more broadly and perhaps in more high profile ways in terms of how much money employers are willing to spend to keep workers out on strike. But again, it’s never about the money, it’s never about the profit sharing, it’s never about any of that. It’s about not ceding power to collective worker action in the workplace, and it really is kind of ruthless in the ways that employers will engage, in this case, union avoidance. It’s such a nice way to say Union Buster.
Essentially just these consultants to drive wedges between workers who have quite a bit to gain from collective organization in a workplace. The thing that really gets me too, and this kind of gets to our last question here, is that it’s well known that employers use these union-busting firms and campaigns all over the country. We hear about it. They’re oftentimes kind of offhandedly mentioned in high-profile union drives that either fail or don’t fail.
I think of things like Colectivo Coffee, and to a certain extent, sometimes Starbucks, some of the various things. And independent research projects like Labor Lab have done a tremendous amount of work tracking the anti-union consultants as they land in these workplaces all over the country. Labor Lab has a interactive map that you can kind of pull up various workplaces that are holding union campaigns and see what consultants have been contracted for which.
And I believe they use the data from OMLS, so they’re pulling forms called LM-20s and LM-10s to see this paperwork that should be filed on behalf of these consultants and the employers who pay the money out to them. But still, so much of this industry is kind of shrouded in secrecy. Why is it so difficult to break through that opacity and be able to shed light on what is a multi-million dollar industry that really has its fingers in every workplace dispute or organization across the country? Why can’t we find more information?
Dave Jamieson:
So the disclosures are a real mixed bag. On the nice end, the disclosure requirements are there, right? There’s a law from 1959. It’s the same law that says every union’s got to file this huge book of an annual report and disclose everyone’s salaries, blah, blah, blah, which I like that as well as a reporter. I think the union transparency is important.
It also requires transparency on the employer side. Unfortunately, that stuff is not very well enforced. There’s requirements that if you’re a consultant and Amazon or whoever hires me, I’m supposed to send in a transparent report within 30 days so that workers know who I am and what I’m being paid. It’s poorly enforced, it’s poorly followed. These things are filed late all the time, and unfortunately, they’re often filed after the campaign has ended when the disclosures are really of no value to the workers.
And why are the disclosures important? Look, this is a workplace election. Just like a US political election, I think people deserve to know how money is influencing them, and there’s often a lot of money pouring into these campaigns. Workers deserve to know who’s lobbying them and what they’re being paid.
So often the consultants, they say they just had an oral agreement with the employer. Frankly, it’s kind of hard to believe in a lot of cases that any company is going to basically write a blank check on the consulting work and not have something in writing. And just in a lot of cases, workers don’t know who they’re dealing with. I talked to people who’ve written to me over the years, so-and-so has been consulting in my place, and there’s no record of it. I think she consulted this other place. And it’s just people that have a very poor handle on what’s going on.
And so I think that’s part of the frustration with advocates on the worker side is to get some teeth to the enforcement. And I think frankly, they are doing a better job under Biden. It was kind of a joke during the Trump years, at least that’s what the data suggests. We saw disclosures plummet. Some of that may have been the consultants getting less work. It’s hard to imagine that that really accounts for the drop off. I think a lot of the consultants and employers thought, well, nobody’s watching things right now, so no need to file.
So they are bugging people. Even a consultant told me, he’s like, I feel like I’m being harassed these days by this office. But there almost never, I found no documented case of someone being prosecuted for willfully ignoring the requirements. And another downside is on the employer side, even if you’re following the law, you can file these so late that people don’t find out what the company spent until after they voted.
A perfect example is Amazon. Companies spent millions of dollars combating the campaigns in Alabama and on Staten Island. Well, Amazon, guess what? They were not required to file until the very end of March. They were literally counting the ballots at JFK8 when Amazon’s disclosure came through.
So it would’ve been nice for workers to say, “Hey, here’s a form that says Amazon spent $4 million last year,” or, “This past year, Amazon spent $13 million,” or whatever. But you often don’t have that information until frankly, it’s no longer valuable. And so again, the disclosures are nice in that gives us a general sense of where these consultants are operating and who’s using them. But you really can’t trust the system and you cannot trust it at all, in my opinion, to really put a peg on how much money is flowing through this world. That is unknowable under this current system.
Mel Buer:
Well, and even just a sort of cursory look at what is filed, you know it’s an astronomical amount of money. Any workplaces that are filing this paperwork late, you’re still seeing millions of dollars for any one campaign. You have to think if you’re paying $3,200 a day for one consultant and maybe they bring on a team of two or three others that come into a workplace of 60 people, they hang out for multiple weeks. I mean, that’s a lot of money that employers are willing to throw into keeping workers from organizing collectively in the workplace. And when you try to wrap your head around it, it really does kind of boggle the mind just how much money is flowing through.
Dave Jamieson:
And in a lot of these cases, workers, they’re pushing for a dollar raise or whatever. So I think for a lot of them, it’s galling to see that a sort of not even particularly large company just spent $200,000 on these consultants.
And I talked to workers to that effect. One place, El Milagro, food maker in Illinois where they, according to disclosure, spent well over a million dollars on consultants. And I talked to workers there who said they were fighting for basic raises, and to see how much was spent was kind of mystifying to them.
Mel Buer:
Right. And again, it comes back to the point that it’s not about the money that they would spend on a dollar or two dollar raise over two years or what have you, right? It’s about ceding power to workers at the workplace and not shutting the door on them before you can even try and force them to offer you a seat at the table.
And this is fantastic work that you’ve been doing, and I think it’s much needed in trying to shed light on this industry. It has quite a hold on the organizing and is quite a big backstop against broader organizing capacity and hopefully continued conversations about what’s happening with the union-busting industry might lead to strengthening of the laws that would actually bring consequences against these individuals who flout the law in the course of the anti-union campaign, or don’t file the paperwork quick enough.
Because right now, even the fines assessed for not filing paperwork is a drop in the bucket for a multimillion-dollar corporation. Fantastic work. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about this today. Could you please let folks know where to find you, find your work, what you’re working on, what’s next for you?
Dave Jamieson:
Sure. Yeah. My stuff is up on huffpost.com. I’m also on Twitter or X or whatever it’s being called today. My handle’s Jamieson, J-A-M-I-E-S-O-N. And yeah, more labor stories to come. I appreciate your interest in the series, Mel. It was fun to dig into this world for a while.
Mel Buer:
It is pretty maddening. It’s kind of like falling down the rabbit hole in many senses, so really great work. That’s it for us here at the Real News Network podcast. Once again, I’m Mel Buer, staff reporter at The Real News Network. Follow us on your favorite social media, and don’t forget to subscribe to our newsletter so we can continue bringing you independent ad-free journalism. Until next time.
A regional director of the National Labor Relations Board submitted a filing on Monday accusing Amazon of illegally calling the police on workers and other unlawful union-busting tactics during its effort to crush an organizing campaign at a warehouse near Albany, New York. In the complaint, first reported by Bloomberg, the NLRB official writes that Amazon “has been interfering with, restraining…
Voting ends Tuesday for 340,000 rank-and-file UPS workers deciding on a tentative agreement with the shipping giant. The tentative agreement includes wins like the addition of air conditioning in vehicles and wage increases. The Teamsters and UPS finalized the potential deal on July 25, avoiding a strike for the time being. Teamsters local unions voted on July 31 to endorse the tentative agreement…
This article was produced for ProPublica’s Local Reporting Network in partnership with Documented. Sign up for Dispatches to get stories like this one as soon as they are published.
Saprina James was hopeful when she received a letter in 2019 about her wage theft claim against her former employer. The letter said the New York State Department of Labor had substantiated her claim and ordered Mugisha F. Sahini and his company, Riverside Line, to pay her more than $70,000 in back wages. “I was feeling good that the government was on my side, and that I would soon get paid,” she said.
James first started driving a van for Sahini in January 2016, taking people to medical appointments in Buffalo, New York. She often worked six days a week, usually helping dialysis patients who relied on walkers, and drove clients from 4:30 a.m. until 10 p.m. She didn’t mind the long hours — she assumed that her pay would ultimately reflect her hard work.
But James had to lease a Toyota minivan for $700 a week as part of the job. On most weeks, after paying her leasing fee, she was left with less than minimum wage.
“It was very hard for me,” said James, who had a difficult time paying her rent and groceries, as well as taxes owed on her income as an independent contractor.
In late 2017, James quit and filed a wage theft claim with the Department of Labor, accusing Sahini and Riverside Line of violating the minimum wage law. She was later joined by her former co-workers, who also claimed minimum wage violations.
The agency substantiated the workers’ claims two years later, ordering Sahini to pay nearly $425,000 in back wages and $850,000 in penalties.
But the Department of Labor, which is responsible for both investigating wage theft claims and recovering back wages, has not been able to collect even a penny on behalf of James. Sahini flatly refused to pay for more than a year, James said, and then appealed the case, claiming that he wasn’t aware that the workers were earning less than minimum wage. The appeal has since been rejected, but James has yet to receive any payment.
About to turn 60, James said she’s now unemployed and running through her savings to pay her bills. “I’m so upset,” she said. “This is ridiculous. I don’t understand why it takes so long.”
Sahini did not respond to repeated requests for comment.
What happened to James is strikingly common among victims of wage theft in New York state, an investigation by Documented and ProPublica found. She and her former co-workers are among thousands of wage theft victims whose employers were ordered by the Department of Labor to pay, but for whom the agency failed to fully recover back wages, according to an analysis of the agency’s database of wage theft violations from 2017 through 2021.
In all, during the five-year period, the agency determined that at least $126 million in wages had been stolen from workers, the analysis shows. As of Feb. 21, however, the agency still needed to recover about $79 million of that total — or about 63% of the back wages.
Of the outstanding back wages, the agency hadn’t recovered at least $7.8 million because of “uncollectible” circumstances, such as businesses going bankrupt or investigators being unable to track down employers, the analysis shows.
The rest, about $71 million, was labeled by the agency as “pending payment,” which means either that no payments or only partial payments had been made, or that the cases were being appealed.
Of the thousands of businesses in the database, at least 95 with outstanding back wages were repeat offenders, each failing to fully pay in at least two cases during the five-year period, the analysis shows.
A case in point: The agency began investigating Brooklyn-based Reymond Construction in 2018 and opened three additional cases in 2019 based on claims filed by 12 workers. It eventually ordered the company to pay more than $31,950 in back wages, but as of Feb. 21 the payments were still pending. The owner of Reymond Construction did not respond to repeated requests for comment.
Labor experts said it’s hard to compare New York’s wage recovery effort against those of other states because of the paucity of wage theft data. State labor enforcement agencies across the country either do not make such information publicly available or do not maintain it in a standardized format that allows for state-by-state comparisons.
National Mobilization Against Sweatshops, a worker-rights organization, is so frustrated with the Department of Labor’s wage recovery rate that it has mostly stopped sending workers to the agency. “It’s a waste of time,” said JoAnn Lum, the group’s director. “I’ve seen so many workers file claims, and they’re told that they’re owed so much in back wages — and then nothing happens.”
Advocates and labor lawyers, as well as eight former Department of Labor officials interviewed by Documented and ProPublica, said it’s critical for the agency to improve its wage recovery rate. But they said the agency has a number of problems that prevent that from happening: Its enforcement unit is chronically understaffed; it lacks a collections unit tasked with wage recovery; and its investigators, unlike their counterparts in other states, do not have legal authority to take actions against recalcitrant employers.
The former agency officials, some of whom had spent decades working at the Department of Labor, said these challenges often leave investigators incapable of enforcing the law against unscrupulous employers. One official — who still works in state government and did not want his name used out of fear of retaliation — put it this way: “If an employer said, ‘Fuck you,’” in response to a payment demand, “there’s not much the agency can do.”
The Department of Labor, which released wage theft data after Documented sued the agency over its refusal to do so, “works diligently to protect the paychecks of hard-working New Yorkers,” Aaron Cagwin, an agency spokesperson, said in a statement.
Cagwin said the agency is also “consistently making improvements to its wage theft investigations and wage recovery processes,” including improving how wage theft claims can be filed and expanding law enforcement partnerships.
Advocates said workers are the ones who suffer the consequences of the agency’s poor wage recovery rate: They are often forced to move on to other jobs, rely on their family for support, go on public assistance, or relocate to another state or, in the case of immigrants, back to their country of origin.
“Wage theft impacts the lowest-wage workers who need that money to pay the rent, buy groceries, take care of their families,” said Magdalena Barbosa, senior vice president at Catholic Migration Services. She noted that New York has strong labor laws that don’t “trickle down into enforcement — and you have workers waiting sometimes for many years to get a small piece of what they’re owed in back wages.”
Vincent Cao, an organizer with the Chinese Staff & Workers Association, said “it’s the cruelest slap in the face to award them back wages that take so long to arrive.”
On a bitterly cold morning in December, a former senior investigator with the Department of Labor was sitting in a coffee shop in Brooklyn, reflecting on his years at the agency. Bald and bespectacled, he raised his eyebrows and described a Sisyphean environment in which overworked investigators faced scarce resources, bureaucratic obstacles and unscrupulous employers and their lawyers while trying in vain to reduce a backlog of thousands of wage theft cases. “It feels hopeless sometimes,” he said, “but more than hopeless — it makes me angry.”
The former investigator’s assessment was echoed by the seven other agency officials interviewed by Documented and ProPublica. They all expressed their frustration with the agency’s chronic failure to fulfill one of its core mandates: to protect the state’s 10 million workers from wage theft.
The former investigator, who still works in state government and did not want his name used out of fear of retaliation, blamed New York’s political leaders for not prioritizing the agency’s mission and perpetually underfunding it.
Budget figures for the agency’s enforcement arm, the Division of Labor Standards — which the former investigator joined more than a decade ago — are available from 2008 to 2022, and they show that its budget went up by 17.8% from $28 million to $33 million during that period. Just to keep up with the inflation rate, the budget would have had to increase by an additional $5 million.
Some state lawmakers said the agency’s woes were particularly pronounced during the tenure of former Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who ran New York from 2011 to 2021. On the one hand, Cuomo launched two joint task forces made up of multiple agencies to crack down on industries, such as car washes and construction, where wage theft is prevalent. But he also instituted a spending cap that kept most state agencies from increasing their budget by more than 2% each year.
With the tight budget, the Division of Labor Standards reduced the number of employees from 282 in 2008 to 140 in 2017, while the number of open investigations climbed from 6,923 in January 2008 to 15,824 in January 2017, according to agency documents obtained by Make the Road New York, an immigrant-rights organization, and shared with Documented and ProPublica. The vast majority of the division’s employees are investigators, while administrative and support staff make up the rest.
Carmine Ruberto, who ran the Division of Labor Standards from 2007 to 2015, recalled the impact of the tight budget on staff morale and workload. “Do I think we could have done better under Cuomo if we had gotten more people? Sure,” he said.
Richard Azzopardi, a spokesperson for the former governor, said wage theft was “a huge priority” for Cuomo, but his administration’s hands were tied with limited resources.
“In 10 of the 11 years during his administration, we had structural deficits and we came in at the heels of the Great Recession where giant cuts had already been made. And we had to restructure government in order to make things right,” Azzopardi said. “I do understand that some people have different opinions on what the money should have been spent on. But it’s a balance.”
Under Gov. Kathy Hochul, the Division of Labor Standards saw its budget increase by $7 million, or 19.5%, in 2023, but the number of full-time employees now stands at 129 and has increased only by three since the governor took office in 2021.
Justin Henry, deputy communications director for Hochul, declined to comment.
The former investigator said the tight budget also meant that the agency couldn’t form a collections unit fully staffed with those versed in financial fraud investigation, asset tracking and locating employers, which could then be deployed for wage recovery — a task that Terri Gerstein, the agency’s former deputy commissioner, called “a crucial part of the process.”
Instead, the agency has been relying on senior investigators to handle the task, which adds to their workload and sometimes requires them to do tasks they’re not trained for, such as overseeing the payment plans of some employers, several former agency officials said.
The agency needs “a proper collections unit,” Gerstein said.
In addition to the lack of the collections unit, the former agency officials said the process is slowed down because each case has to be reviewed by several layers of officials.
For instance, once a claim is substantiated, the case goes to a senior investigator, who can sometimes take up to a year and a half to review it. Similarly, when an employer is unresponsive, the Division of Labor Standards issues an order to comply, but only after getting approvals from three more layers of officials.
The former investigator said the bureaucratic bottleneck helped create long delays in recovering back wages. “It’s not like we push a button and increase the speed of the machine and then the cases come out at the other end,” he said.
The analysis of the agency’s database appears to back up the former investigator’s claim. As of Feb. 21, the agency had recovered no wages in 8,300 cases — affecting about 29,000 workers — that were at least five years old, or more than a fifth of the total cases from that time period.
Two of the long-pending cases were filed by Fernando, a 49-year-old Mexican immigrant who worked as a delivery driver for two Brooklyn restaurants. He filed his claim against the first restaurant in 2009 and another claim with his co-worker against the second restaurant in 2015.
The agency substantiated the claims, finding that two restaurants owed Fernando and his co-worker a total of more than $380,000 in back wages. Fernando, who requested to be identified by only his middle name because he’s undocumented, said he has not received his back wages. “The most important thing is the DOL could resolve these cases quicker,” he said.
The former agency officials said that when investigators try to go after employers for back wages, they find themselves without effective enforcement tools to force quick payments.
The orders to comply, for instance, can be appealed at the state’s Industrial Board of Appeals, a five-person panel that can take months, or even years, to adjudicate a case. In the vast majority of the cases, the board eventually sides with the agency. But even then, former agency officials said, employers often continue to ignore the orders, knowing that they are unlikely to face any consequences from doing so.
The former agency officials also said filing judgments in court against particularly recalcitrant employers often fails to force quick payments: While it puts a mark on their credit report, employers can and do get around the judgment by conducting their businesses in someone else’s name or getting a private loan from their family and friends.
Advocates and labor lawyers agreed that this was common practice. “Just because you get a judgment doesn’t mean you can collect on it,” said Margaret McIntyre, a lawyer who represents wage theft victims.
Advocates and labor lawyers said New York could adopt a number of tactics that have been successfully deployed in other states.
In Maryland and Wisconsin, for instance, workers are allowed to place a lien on their employers’ personal property to secure the payment of back wages. This has proven to be effective, according to a 2015 report by the Legal Aid Society, Urban Justice Center and the National Center for Law and Economic Justice. “A wage lien not only encourages an employer to dispute the matter and play fair in court, but ensures that if the workers win their case, they may actually be able to enforce a judgment against the employers’ property and collect the wages they are owed,” the report said.
New York, in fact, has had a lien law for decades, but it only applies to certain workers in the construction industry. Industry pressure, especially from the powerful New York City Hospitality Alliance, which represents restaurant owners, has helped defeat legislation introduced in recent years to expand the law’s scope.
In June, after the latest lien bill stumbled in Albany, the Hospitality Alliance issued a statement, saying it would have been a violation of due process to allow an employee to place a lien on “the private property of the owners, investors and even managers of the business based solely on the accusation of wage violations.”
In California, businesses appealing the finding of wage theft violations are required to post a surety bond up to $150,000, which they forfeit if they fail to pay back wages after losing on appeal. Those who fail to post the bond can be and are prohibited from doing business in the state.
In New York, the state has a similar bonding rule, which was implemented in the wake of a 2015 New York Times exposé on working conditions in nail salons, but it only applies to owners of nail salons with at least two workers. New York City also has a limited bonding rule that applies to owners of car wash businesses. Advocates for nail salon and car wash workers said they didn’t have enough data to know whether the bonding rules have significantly helped reduce wage theft.
Some states and local communities have also used the licensing and contracting processes to their advantage.
In 2015, for instance, Cook County in Illinois took aim at violators of state and federal wage laws, disqualifying them from lucrative county contracts. In 2019, Santa Clara County in California also launched a pilot project that would suspend the licenses of any business for five days if it fails to pay back wages. Before the year’s end, the county suspended eight licenses, mostly from restaurants, and each led to the payment, according to the county’s Office of Labor Standards Enforcement. “Being closed for five days is really bad for a restaurant’s business, so they seek to avoid that,” Gerstein said.
Adopting these approaches “wouldn’t make wage theft disappear in New York, but it would make a difference,” said Rick Blum, staff lawyer at the Legal Aid Society.
Some workers have already lost faith in the Department of Labor — and this includes a young woman named Kirsten, who filed a wage theft claim with the agency in August 2020 against a downtown Manhattan bar that had repeatedly failed to pay her. Kirsten, who requested to be identified by only her middle name to protect her future employment prospects, said she submitted documents and pay stubs. She didn’t hear back for more than a year and a half, until a phone call and letter from an investigator in the spring of 2022 asking her for more information about the case.
To this day, Kirsten said she has not received her back wages and has given up altogether. The agency “has been useless to me,” she said. “It just feels hopeless, like workers are all alone.”
About the Data
Determining the prevalence of wage theft in New York is more complicated than in some other states, including California, Massachusetts and Texas, because its Department of Labor does not make the results of investigations readily available to the public.
Documented filed a public records request for that information in 2019. When the department refused to release it, Documented took the agency to court. The agency has since released to Documented and ProPublica its database containing information on nearly 97,000 cases that began and concluded from 2005 to Feb. 21, 2023. Department of Labor officials told us that they began using this database fully in 2008, so we only analyzed cases from that year onward.
The database provides a number of details on each case, including the names and addresses of businesses that committed the violation, the number of workers who were affected and cited labor law violations.
But the database only provides the dates of when cases began, so we focused most of our analysis on cases from 2017 to 2021.
To determine how many businesses had multiple wage theft cases and still owed back wages, we manually standardized business names and addresses and counted instances in which a company still owed back wages in at least two cases.
To determine the percentage of back wages recovered, we tallied the amount of collected back wages and divided it by the amount of outstanding back wages in all cases contained in the database. Our metric may overestimate the percentage of back wages recovered. In some cases, the recovered amount recorded in the database might also include “liquidated damages,” which are payments for the harm caused by the wage theft and interest. The database does not differentiate between these different types of collected funds. In cases where the recovered amount was greater than the outstanding back wages, we adjusted the recovered amount to equal the outstanding back wages.
The analysis does not take into account the cases reported to the U.S. Department of Labor, which also investigates wage theft in New York but does not make public any database showing how much back wages have been recovered by the agency.
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This story originally appeared in Labor Notes on Aug. 17, 2023. It is shared here with permission.
The clock is ticking toward September 14 at midnight, when the Auto Workers’ contracts with the Big 3 automakers expire. The new leaders of the UAW have come out swinging, and in quickly growing numbers, members are stepping up to prepare for a strike.
The agreements cover close to 150,000 workers at Ford, General Motors (GM), and Stellantis.
In early August President Shawn Fain presented a list of “the Members’ Demands” to the companies, calling them “the most audacious and ambitious list of proposals they’ve seen in decades.” These bargaining goals are aimed at undoing concessions extracted by the companies from previous union administrations since before the Great Recession. A major goal is to ensure that the transition to electric vehicles is not used to further undermine auto workers’ standards.
Entering this round of bargaining, the Big 3 have reported a combined $21 billion in profits in the first half of 2023. This comes on top of profits of $250 billion over the last 10 years. “Our message going into bargaining is clear: record profits mean record contracts,” Fain told UAW members on Facebook Live August 1.
Instead of the UAW’s past tradition of targeting just one auto company in bargaining, then basing contracts for the others off that model, Fain warned all three companies to consider themselves targets, keeping them guessing about which one may ultimately be struck—or whether union members might walk out at all three. In 2019, 49,000 UAW members struck GM for six weeks.
Among the demands Fain presented are:
Eliminating tiers on wages and benefits, plus double-digit raises for all
Restoring cost-of-living adjustments, which were suspended during the Great Recession
Restoring the defined-benefit pension and retiree health care for all; workers hired since 2007 have neither
Increasing pensions for current retirees; there’s been no increase since 2003
The right to strike over plant closures
A “working family protection program.” If the companies shut down a plant, they would have to pay laid-off workers to do community service work.
Making all current temps permanent employees, with strict limits on the future use of temps
Increasing paid time off
Protecting Electrical Vehicle Workers
The union is simultaneously pushing to improve conditions for electrical vehicle (EV) battery workers employed at joint ventures between the Big 3 and South Korean firms. A letter signed by 28 Senators urged the companies to fold these battery workers into their master agreements with the UAW. “These are highly skilled, technical, and strenuous jobs,” read the letter. “It is unacceptable and a national disgrace that the starting wage at any current American joint venture EV battery facility is $16 an hour.”
The companies say these proposals are too expensive and threaten their competitiveness, especially when they are ramping up investment to convert to EVs. Fain says this argument ignores recent history: “When the Big 3 say the future is uncertain and the EV transition is expensive, remember that they’ve made a quarter of a trillion in North American profits over the last decade and have poured billions of it into special dividends, stock buybacks, and supersized executive compensation.”
Pay for the Big 3 CEOs rose by an average of 40 percent since 2019, with GM CEO Mary Barra alone raking in $29 million in compensation in 2022. “We know our members are worth the same and more,” said Fain.
More Transparency
Fain was elected in March on a slate backed by the reform movement Unite All Workers for Democracy (UAWD), on a platform of “No corruption, no concessions, no tiers,” ending 70 years of one-party rule in the UAW. He is not only pushing a more militant approach in bargaining but also promising more transparency with the members.
“Bargaining’s not a one-person show,” Fain said. “Those days are gone, and gone with those days is the false belief that union contracts are solely won by the president.”
This time around, Fain has had particularly harsh words for Stellantis, the parent company of Jeep, Ram Trucks, and Chrysler formed in 2021 through a merger of Fiat Chrysler and Peugeot. “I have been shocked to see how one company in particular is trying to lowball and undercut us,” he said on Facebook Live August 8.
Fain said concession demands included removing a cap on temps and cutting vacation for new hires—and then he dumped Stellantis’s proposal in the trash.
Past UAW leaders bargained behind closed doors, never organizing members to pressure the Big 3 and declining even to reveal specific bargaining goals. Leaders sometimes called major strikes last-minute to soften members up to accept lousy offers.
Nonetheless, UAW members kept alive a wall-to-wall culture of honoring picket lines.
Members in Motion
This year, some old-guard regional directors and local officers are refusing to promote the contract campaign—calling it a UAWD plot. But Fain’s assertive and open approach has encouraged members—and some skeptical officers—to jump into the fight . On Facebook Live August 15, he said, “I’m asking rank-and-file activists all around the country to do everything you can do to get organized in your plant…Our national Organizing Department is putting together weekly virtual trainings that will walk you through how to organize actions at your workplace.”
Fain specified getting out a big strike vote, putting signs in car windows, and—taking a page from the Teamsters’ book—parking lot rallies and practice pickets. Besides strike votes, none of these tactics has been used by the UAW for many decades.
In addition, UAWD is encouraging members to spread information and spirit through “10-minute meetings,” in-person meetings at work with a group of co-workers.
At Ford’s big Chicago plant, 500 members of Local 551 attended two-hour strike training classes in early August, organized by members and local officers. Nearly 100 volunteered as strike captains.
Before the class got started, some members showed each other videos of Fain’s demands on their phones: “46 percent raise by the end of the contract? That’s right on.” Members cheered when local officers repeated the threat to strike all three companies at once, if needed.
The training raised ideas for escalating pressure on Ford before expiration, with inspiration from a video of “practice picketing” by UPS Teamsters. One of the biggest applause lines came from a facilitator’s suggestion to “do no favors for managers!”
Members’ fighting spirit came out fast in questions. Assembly worker Wayne Davis asked, “How do we get others ready to endure as long as it takes?”
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Cornell University is ending a contract with Starbucks after the company permanently closed all three of its locations in Ithaca, New York, where the university is located, a year after the stores each voted to unionize. The university announced on Wednesday that it will not renew its contract as part of the “We Proudly Serve Starbucks” program, under which the university’s cafes serve Starbucks…
Ever since she became old enough to work, Ariana Lingerfeldt has found cooking jobs in cafes and restaurants. “It’s something I’m good at,” she told Truthout. For the past two years, her workplace has been the Green Sage Cafe in South Asheville, North Carolina. The eatery unionized in February 2023 and is part of Teamsters Local 61; staff are now among the 3 percent of workers in the Tar Heel…
The nation’s largest coffee brand joined the ranks of companies pledging to increase diversity in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police.
Starbucks set a goal of 30% people of color at all corporate jobs and 40% in every retail and manufacturing role by 2025.
Two years later, the company’s own workforce demographic reports show there is still much progress to be made: Less than half of all roles reported by the company had reached the goal by 2022.
Black representation was particularly low. From 2020 to 2022, Starbucks’ own numbers show no change among baristas and shift supervisors and less than 1 percentage point improvement among store managers. Starbucks reported only a 1-point gain for regional vice presidents, the top retail position.
Opportunities for Advancement Are Uneven Across Industry
Coffee has been entangled with issues of racism since the 18th century, when colonizers established coffee plantations in the Caribbean and elsewhere that depended on slave labor. And today, a majority of coffee is still grown and harvested internationally by low-income people of color.
The U.S. coffee business is disproportionately White. From the trade business to boardrooms and baristas behind the counter, people of color can be hard to find, said Phyllis Johnson, founder of the Coffee Coalition for Racial Equity.
“When you look at a consuming country, oftentimes, what you see is such a small representation of what coffee is,” Johnson said. “A lot of the opportunities are gatekept.”
Customers walk into joint location for Caribou Coffee and Einstein Bros. Bagels in Lakewood, Colo. Credit: RJ Sangosti/The Denver Post via Getty Images
For every one Black Starbucks worker in 2021, there were six White employees, and the Minnesota-based chain Caribou Coffee reported the same 1-to-6 ratio in 2020. Despite being headquartered in the multicultural San Francisco Bay area, Peet’s Coffee was less diverse: employing eight White workers for every one Black employee in 2019, the latest numbers available for that company from the federal data.
About half of Peet’s Coffee’s workers identified as a racial minority as of June, said Mary O’Connell, head of communications at the company, higher than their 36% share among all U.S. jobs but far lower than the 71% non-White population of the East Bay’s Alameda County, where both the original Peet’s and its current corporate offices are located.
Starbucks is on track to reach its goal by 2025 and will continue to publish annual updates, said Danielle Winslow, social impact communications manager for the company. She said that its employees – Starbucks calls them “partners” – are at the center of the company and that it prioritizes creating opportunities for minority partners.
“At Starbucks, our goals around inclusion and diversity are not simply metrics – it’s a mindset,” she said.
Caribou Coffee did not respond to requests for comment.
Keith Hawkins, who is Black, founded the Color of Coffee Collective in 2021 to combat issues of diversity and equity in specialty coffee. Before that, the U.S. Army veteran spent years working at a local coffee shop and later almost two years at Starbucks, where he said he repeatedly watched as White co-workers with less experience were promoted ahead of him.
“Regardless of what I knew, regardless of how much I poured into the industry,” Hawkins said, “I came to the real realization that most of these companies only wanted certain people, specifically blond hair and blue-eyed White men, to represent them when it came to spaces of negotiating deals.”
A current Starbucks employee, who asked to be identified only by her first name, said she has not seen any improvement in recent years. Sunny has been a barista at multiple Starbucks locations in Texas for a decade. In that time, she said she abandoned her ambitions of being promoted to shift supervisor or store manager after repeatedly being passed over.
“At the beginning of me signing on, they told me … that we’re a company that is really big in promoting from within,” she said. “I am living proof that that’s not true.”
Representation in Leadership Tends to Be Low
What diversity exists in the coffee industry tends to congregate in lower-level, lower-wage positions. Typically, the disparities grow wider up the corporate ladder.
“The problem exists in decision-making roles and opportunities,” Johnson said.
The Starbucks C-Suite breaks some from this trend: There were 12 Starbucks executives of color out of 45 in 2021, six of them Black. Although women outnumber men almost 3 to 1 among service workers, like baristas, their representation is half that amid executives, and 21 of the 27 women in the C-Suite are White.
At Peet’s Coffee’s in 2019, 82 executives were White; just 13 were people of color, including three Black executives. Caribou Coffee reported one Black executive in 2020 and no women of color, out of 15 total.
And at Starbucks, a close-up look shows the improvements at corporate offices were mixed for Black employees: More were hired into employee roles and the number of vice presidents almost doubled to match the American workforce, but figures for managers, directors and senior VPs remained virtually unchanged between 2020 and 2022.
A Dig Insights survey of about 300 coffee workers across the country shows the fallout from a lack of promotion opportunities: Less than half of respondents who were Black, Indigenous or people of color said they would recommend working in the industry.
“It’s incredibly hard to make the leap from barista to a salaried position with a livable wage,” said one of the respondents. “These positions are sometimes gatekept by certification and training that is unaffordable by the common barista. I just hope for a better future with more opportunities.”
Smaller coffee shops don’t show up in the statistics, but Porttia Portis, who has worked in coffee for just over a decade in almost exclusively management roles at local cafes, said she has faced discrimination there from not just bosses, but customers.
“More often than not, people did not want to believe that I was the manager,” said Portis, who is Black. “Everyone in the room could tell a customer that I was the most knowledgeable person, that I was the manager, and they would look me dead in my face and be like, ‘I want to talk to someone else,’ ” Portis said.
Equal Employment Opportunity: Who Rises to the Top?
Type a company name, city or state in the search box above. Source: U.S. Department of Labor
Many baristas will migrate from retailers such as Starbucks or Peet’s Coffee to local cafes in hopes of finding a better environment, Portis said. What they often find instead, she said, are small operations whose ambitions to scale up leave them mirroring the mindsets of their larger competitors.
“A lot of the mentality stays the same throughout the industry, regardless of the shop size,” Portis said. “And I think on a smaller level, you find that there’s a lot more disparity because there’s a lot less checks and balances. Whereas on the larger levels, you’re going to have more DEI programs or diversity initiatives. Whether it’s to meet a quota or not, there’s at least something that exists there.”
Charles Umeano said he has even tried changing cities, moving from coffee shops in Atlanta to New York and Boston. Yet he said he kept running into the same issues as Portis and others.
“I’ve watched a lot of very talented baristas of color decide that they don’t want to deal with this anymore,” said Umeano, who is currently looking for a job in coffee outside of retail. “In fact, a lot of them are questioning why I’m still here.”
Promises for Change So Far Unfulfilled
Amid the unrest three years ago, many companies made similar promises in 2020 to increase diversity. But Hawkins said many of those vows to change proved to be more performative than productive.
When a shop near him posted an advertisement on social media calling for volunteers for an online conversation about minority representation in coffee, Hawkins, who has extensive industry experience, responded.
“And then they sent me a message back saying, ‘We’ll let you know,’ ” he said. “I waited for about six months. … I DM’d and said, ‘Hey, are you still having this conversation?’ And it was crickets.”
After calls for change peaked in 2020, Portis said she believed minorities working in coffee were left worse off.
“ ‘Performative’ isn’t even a strong enough word to some degree,” she said.
“As soon as the hype died down, then (there) was a lot of resistance,” Portis added. “Once people started getting hired again, it was just a lot of resentment of, ‘You got hired because you’re the diversity hire, and I really don’t believe that you’re qualified for this job.’
“Whereas before, you could at least expect if you did get hired, you knew you were getting hired because you were qualified.”
Johnson is more optimistic about the industry’s potential for improvement.
“I think the thing that will ensure that it continues and gets better is that their customers must demand it; their customers must hold them accountable,” Johnson said. “And sometimes, better can mean becoming more aware.”
Because the coffee industry is an intimate and relationship-driven space, Umeano said hiring tends to be based on who you know or other areas rife with implicit biases. But for their own success, he said, coffee shops stand to benefit from more diverse hiring practices.
“I think a lot of times, people look at diversity as you’re doing a solid to people of color, and I don’t really think that’s the mentality,” Umeano said. “In any situation, you want different heads in the room for creative solutions.”
This article was published in collaboration with USA TODAY.
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Washington Post (1/27/23): “With most federal employees still working at home…downtown can still feel like a deflated balloon.”
According to the Washington Post, the nation’s capital is withering. Washington, DC, has become a “ghost town,” the paper mourns (4/18/23), “pocked by vacant storefronts, moribund sidewalks and offices that, even on the busiest days, are just over half occupied” (1/27/23).
Who’s responsible for DC’s grim state? Remote workers.
Employees who continue to work from home, the Post’s logic goes, have abandoned the offices to which they used to commute, devastating the commercial real-estate market and retail businesses within municipal downtowns. These admonitions aren’t limited to Washington; in New York, remote work will “wipe out 44% of office values” (NBC New York, 5/24/23); in San Francisco (Washington Post, 6/12/23), it “could portend disaster;” and in Los Angeles (NPR, 5/16/23), it is already “upending [downtown] ecosystems.”
Sympathy for the landlords
Within this narrative, outlets suggest that wealthy office real-estate developers have become the victims of a recalcitrant remote labor force.
A Washington Post editorial (4/18/23) says that “the deadly virus remains a serious risk but is now a known commodity…. So it is ironic that a large percentage of federal workers still haven’t returned to the office.”
In a story headlined “Downtown DC’s Struggles Mount as Many Workers Remain Remote,” the Washington Post (1/27/23) invited readers to pity commercial real-estate developers, whose office properties’ multimillion-dollar values were at risk of decline as staffs worked from home, and tenants accordingly let their leases lapse. The piece featured Anthony Lanier, president of the multinational Eastbanc, who’d found himself “awake at 5 a.m., worrying,” since the devaluation of his downtown Washington building from $249 million in 2021 to a paltry $154 million by the time of the article’s publication.
“With most federal employees still working at home,” downtown DC “can still feel like a deflated balloon,” the Post continued, highlighting an unused 12-story office building and 20 vacant storefronts. Because of diminishing revenue from large downtown office properties, a source told the Post, “the transition is going to be painful for property owners, asset holders” and municipal services. (That source was Yesim Sayin of the DC Policy Center, a “nonpartisan research organization” that just so happens to receive funding from multiple real-estate companies.)
Little had changed, apparently, since the New York Times (4/8/21) warned that a contraction of office space caused by telework could “crush,” “wallop” and “pummel” commercial landlords. In one estimate the Times included, office landlords’ profits “would fall 15% if companies allowed workers to be at home just one and a half days a week on average. Three days at home could slash income by 30%.”
And again this year, the Post (6/12/23) declared that workers who wanted to stay remote were “prompting an office real estate crisis,” rendering commercial landlords “desperate.” Amazon and Google, the paper continued, had paused plans for sprawling real-estate developments amid a “debate over return-to-office mandates,” much to the Post’s dismay. (The Post disclosed that it’s owned by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, but, perhaps relatedly, didn’t deem it relevant to note the historicalopposition to these sorts of projects among local communities.)
Misplaced blame, distorted stakes
The Washington Post (6/12/23) does not seem to recognize the irony of blaming empty real estate not only on remote work but on “a long-festering homelessness issue the city has failed to resolve.”
While it’s convenient for media to name a single culprit for falling office values, it’s also simplistic. Remote work certainly affects occupancy: An April 2023 estimate placed the US office vacancy rate at 12.9%, compared to 9.4% in the second quarter of 2019. However, commercial real estate had seen record vacancies priorto the onset of Covid and the attendant growth of telework.
Just before Covid surfaced, thousands of US stores had shuttered, and mall vacancies reached their greatest extent “in at least two decades” (Financial Times, 1/20/20). Theoretically, landlords could have filled the empty spaces by decreasing rents for mall tenants. Yet they mostly opted not to, calculating that it would be more lucrative to leave units vacant than to reduce asking prices; the latter would drag their property values below their speculations, and could inspire other tenants to demand reductions.
The result, as FT reported: Property owners like Cushman & Wakefield—which also leases office space, and has been cited as yet another “desperate” landlord (NPR, 5/16/23)—not only refused to lower rents, but in fact increased them to then-unprecedented levels in 2019. (Residential landlords, too, employ this form of artificial scarcity—Curbed, 1/27/23—and some commercial real-estate companies openly tout it as a business strategy.)
The Washington Post (1/27/23) addressed a related issue in one of its many commercial-property elegies: “Even before the pandemic, downtown Washington had an oversupply of offices,” the outlet noted, adding that this excess was “aggravated”—not caused—“by the emergence of telework and competition from emerging neighborhoods such as the Wharf.”
The Wall Street Journal (2/28/23) offered a similar casual mention weeks later: “It doesn’t help that US offices were emptier long before the pandemic. A construction glut led to high vacancy rates.” But these complexities conflict with the anti‒remote work narrative, which could be the reason the Post relegated this critical information to the 21st paragraph and the Journal to the 18th.
Additionally, it’s hard to buy the notion that even the most fabulously wealthy commercial landlords—including Donald Trump’s eponymous Trump Organization (Washington Post, 6/12/23)—are struggling to make rent or pay off loans because of remote-work trends, let alone that they’ll be allowed to fail.
The Post itself (6/12/23) noted a crucial point: As a Brookings Institution fellow explained, banks would deliberately prevent mass foreclosure of commercial properties if said foreclosures weren’t in their interest. “The issues have been known for a while,” the outlet conceded, “giving lenders plenty of time to consider what to do.” As in its January piece, the paper waited until well into the piece—21 paragraphs, in this case—to acknowledge this.
Against industry interests
Michael Bloomberg, a multi-billionaire with over $100 million in real estate investments, lobbies in the Washington Post (8/1/23) for the federal government to force workers back to the office—because remote work is bad for “small businesses…poor people and elderly people,” of course.
Why are teleworkers the objects of such disdain? Perhaps because having the option to work remotely—remarkably popular but increasinglyrare among both private- and public-sector workers—is one of the few forms of power the US labor force has retained since the pandemic struck, and is thus at odds with the interests of industry. Hence corporate media’s frequent finger-wagging: The Wall Street Journal (2/28/23), for instance, claimed that workers have “turned their backs on offices.” NPR (5/16/23) cautioned that cities and businesses stood to “flounder—and even fail—without” employees who’d gone remote.
The Washington Post’s editorial board, meanwhile, has published multiple broadsides against remote public-sector workers (11/23/22), calling their workplace arrangements “unsustainable” (4/18/23). More recently, an indignant Michael Bloomberg penned an opinion piece for the Post (8/1/23) declaring that federal employees and their unions had no more “excuses” not to return to the office permanently, based on the dubious premise that “the pandemic is over.” (More than 160,000 people in the US have died from Covid in the past year.) A photo of a storefront with a for-lease sign embellished Bloomberg’s tirade, reinforcing the conceit that federal teleworkers had ruined urban businesses.
Somewhat surprisingly, one of Bloomberg’s own media verticals, CityLab (3/9/23), quoted two public-sector union officials in its coverage. One, Jacqueline Simon of the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), challenged the disciplining of public-sector employees, stating, “The federal government doesn’t exist to provide business to downtown restaurants.” The other, Tony Reardon of the National Treasury Employees Union (NTEU), pointed out that remote work “reduces leasing costs for the government.” (There are reasons to criticize AFGE and NTEU, which represent employees of the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security, among many others. But, contra Michael Bloomberg’s screed, their embrace of remote work isn’t among the most compelling ones.)
The two labor leaders, however, were outnumbered by sources advocating for commercial real estate: the chief executive of the US Chamber of Commerce, a senior director at the aforementioned real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield, a former consultant for the infamous McKinsey & Company, and the owner of a shuttered jewelry store.
In case the Washington Post hadn’t made it clear enough, CityLab offered a stark reminder: Corporate media will defend property long before it’ll defend the people who work, or used to work, within it.
Janine Jackson interviewed the Upsurge‘s Teddy Ostrow about the UPS/Teamsters agreement for the August 4, 2023, episode of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript.
Janine Jackson: In early July, the New York Timesran an article that said, “The world is watching what happens at the UPS/Teamsters negotiating table because a strike would cause real problems.”
It’s true that many eyes were on the working out of an agreement between UPS, which handles roughly a quarter of packages shipped in this country, and the Teamsters, representing some 340,000 workers in this critical sector.
But it’s funny how corporate news media choose to define labor’s power in terms of destructiveness. Somehow it’s “it’d be rotten if they stopped working,” and not “they and their work are very important.”
That said, the agreement reached, the success and solidarity in getting to it—that’s very much a story worth telling. Our guest has been telling it. Teddy Ostrow reports on labor and economics. He’s host and lead producer of the podcast the Upsurge, as well as a former FAIR intern. He joins us now by phone from Brooklyn. Welcome to CounterSpin, Teddy Ostrow.
Teddy Ostrow: Pleasure to be here, Janine.
JJ: Part of the loss from corporate media’s general failure to report regularly and inclusively on labor is that people who haven’t been in a union or in a union family may be, frankly, unfamiliar with how things happen in contract negotiations, for example.
So I want to talk about the content of the agreement, but first of all, we’re recording on Wednesday, August 2; what should we know about the state of play right now?
TO: So there was a tentative agreement that was reached on July 25. That’s not a done deal, right? This is tentative, meaning that the workers, in a democratic fashion, are going to be voting between August 3 and August 22 about whether or not this is good enough for them.
Basically, if they vote it down, the union leadership will go back to the table and try to get something better. And if they can’t work out a deal, the strike is still potential, right? 340,000 workers, one of the largest potential strikes in decades, still really could happen.
JJ: So the headlines that sort of give you the impression that a strike has been averted, it’s true, but it really means “averted for now,” and there’s not a contract that’s signed yet, just to be clear.
TO: Yes, we are seeing in headlines right now, some corporate media headlines are being a little bit clearer, you can see that they actually are revising the headlines; perhaps business reporters who are assigned to these stories actually understand what’s going on.
But yeah, this is not a done deal. Nothing was averted, prevented, headed off quite yet, and we can talk about some of the issues of that framing in itself. But yeah, this is not over yet. We are still waiting on the democratic process of voting on this.
JJ: I do believe that people are learning that strikes and labor actions are not only about higher pay—though that is often central—but people can see the economy shifting, they know that more things are being bought online and delivered; it’s even sort of culturally acknowledged, you know, “Get to know your UPS person.” So what were the central issues in dispute here?
TO: One of the main issues certainly was pay, but in particular for the part-time workforce at UPS, which comprised 60% of the Teamsters who work at UPS. And these folks are making as low as $15.50 an hour, which is completely unlivable, and a lot of these people were living in poverty.
But beyond even just the economics, we’re looking at the case of forced and excessive overtime really making people’s lives harder, working up to 14 hours a day, up to six days a week, in the case of package delivery car drivers.
And we’re also talking about the real, serious risks of even death and heat stroke and other weather-related hazards in the warehouse, in the package car, as we’re dealing with the climate crisis.
And there’s a number of other issues, and in this TA, it does seem like the Teamsters have made a number of gains. It’s up to the membership to decide whether those gains are sufficient. There is certainly devil-in-the-details in certain cases, and some folks are speaking up and saying, “We’re going to vote no,” “We’re going to vote yes.” We’ll have to wait and see.
But the story here is that workers fought really hard over the past year, 340,000 Teamsters at this company. They, for the past year, have been doing a contract campaign, which is really just about making sure that the membership is educated, making sure that they are organized and mobilized and building a credible strike threat.
And that’s the narrative here. It’s not that anything was averted, that the economy was saved, but that workers fought and they won. And perhaps the workers will decide that they could have fought and won for more.
But all of the news we’ve been seeing about practice picket lines, about rallies, about educating the workforce: This is why the workers have achieved what they have so far, and whether it’s part-time pay, whether it’s gaining air conditioning in the delivery car, whether it’s tamping down on some of that forced overtime, workers fought and they certainly did win.
JJ: We know that you are a media observer, and understand the importance of press coverage, here as elsewhere. You’ve started to tip it, but what have you made of the reporting of, first of all, the circumstances and conditions that led to the action and the forces involved, but then of the goings on themselves: What stands out for you?
TO: Well, of course we’re seeing most media jump on the story at the 11th hour. So there wasn’t a lot of work done necessarily to explain the history leading up to this, the struggles for years of these workers, and the organizing done to make sure that there was a credible strike threat, and that the workers could win concessions from the company.
But what we’re looking at is this sort of sigh of relief coming from media that the strike has been averted, it’s been prevented, this looming strike that would’ve crippled or devastated the economy—that is stripped of context. It’s almost like an asteroid decided to not hit the Earth, right? We’re seeing a lot of peddling in catastrophism.
And what this does is it sort of invokes “the economy.” That’s what we’ve been hearing, “the economy” as the potential victim or victor in the case of an averted strike, which is really just framing us as the consumer, framing us as in alliance with corporations.
Because when they say “the economy,” which is what we’ve been hearing in the case of the preemptively broken rail strike last year, in this case as well, they are talking about the flow of capital. They are talking about the flow of profits.
And as the consumer audience, framed as the consumer, we’re supposed to identify with that. And we hear “the economy could be harmed,” and we’re supposed to think that I or my family or my friends will be harmed by this. We will be inconvenienced by our packages perhaps not coming on time.
And what this does, it completely overshadows the stakes for the workers, the problems that these workers have been dealing with, which include death, harassment, sickness, not being able to see your kids in the morning or at night because you are being forced to work all day, living in shelters, living on the streets because you don’t have enough money to live and pay for necessities.
It papers [over] all of that, and it overlooks that the audience the corporate media is catering to, well, they’re workers themselves! And the knowledge of the benefit of a better agreement of a potential strike is lost on corporate or on the audience of corporate media.
Because as workers, when other workers do better, when the 340,000 UPS workers get better benefits, get better pay, they have better working conditions—that can have reverberations in the effective standards in the industry. And it can also have demonstration effects that workers in other industries, all around the country, can maybe use the leverage that they have, the principal leverage against their employers, which is the threat of a strike, to get what they deserve, to get what they want.
We are just seeing all of that context stripped out by this singular framing of, “Phew, the strike was averted. Good thing for consumers, good thing for corporations. And, of course, you media consumers.”
JJ: We talk about this allthetime, the way that when it comes to labor actions, corporate media try to split customers or consumers and workers, as though workers weren’t consumers and consumers weren’t workers.
And sometimes that’s easy for media to do, although it’s lazy and disingenuous. But with Sean O’Brien, the head of the Teamsters, and the head of UPS, Carol Tomé, both coming out saying this tentative agreement is a “win/win/win,” media can only do their worker vs. consumer shtick in a kind of counterfactual, “Well, it really would’ve been bad” sort of way. I think it complicates media’s tendency to try to square off consumers vs. workers in this case.
Teddy Ostrow: “Something’s happening in the United States for workers. They’re seeing through the pleading-poverty of the corporations.”
TO: And we are seeing sort of desperate attempts to spin this, I think: “The rates are going to go up. UPS is going to lose their volumes to competition.” And it seems almost as if there’s still this reflexive framing to whatever happens in the case of a labor dispute, that the workers have somehow squeezed out the profitability, and therefore the service, of the corporation.
Thankfully, we are starting to see at least some acknowledgement. I think that things have probably changed over time, especially since UPS Teamsters obstructed the company last in 1997, where there was a pretty firm line that this is all about the inconvenience to the consumer.
But things are changing more broadly in the labor movement. I think that the corporate media have their feet to the fire, to start actually asking questions about inequality and corporate power.
We’re seeing it with the 160,000 actors out on strike. We’re seeing it with the 11,000 writers. LA seems to be a real powerhouse right now for the labor movement.
But more broadly, the story here they’re trying to bend themselves not to exactly tell, but are being forced to tell, is that something’s happening in the United States for workers. They’re seeing through the pleading-poverty of the corporations, whether it’s UPS or the AMPTP in Hollywood, and they’re saying, “Look, we deserve more.” And they’re starting to see unions, they’re starting to see collective action, as the avenue to take back what they create. Workers create wealth, and they are starting to recognize that.
So corporate media, as they did in 1997, temporarily, they’re starting to sort of bend to that. And we are seeing more labor reporters, for example, but even in the regular press, acknowledgement that a tentative deal, whether it’s this one or the next one, is going to raise the standard. And it is a part of a larger movement that we’re seeing that is hopefully resurgent, and is going to help working people for years to come.
JJ: All right then, let’s end on that note. We’ve been speaking with reporter Teddy Ostrow, from the podcast the Upsurge. Thank you so much, Teddy Ostrow, for joining us this week on CounterSpin.
“I’ve never been an organizer,” Khali Jama says, “but I’ve always fought.” As a single mother, a Muslim, and a Somali-American worker living in Minnesota, Jama has always had to fight for the life she, her family, and her fellow workers deserve. And earlier this year, after bringing that fight to the Minnesota state legislature, Khali and her coworkers achieved a major victory. “On May 16,” Lisa Kwon reports in PRISM, “Minnesota lawmakers passed the nation’s strongest Amazon warehouse worker protection legislation with the Warehouse Worker Protection Act, which ensures that workers can take breaks during the workday and have access to relevant quota and performance standards and data on how fast they’re working. The bill’s passage marks a significant victory for migrant workers—especially Minnesota’s Somali immigrant population, of which the state has the largest in the country. For Khali Jama, a former worker in Amazon’s fulfillment center in Shakopee, Minnesota, the new bill offers reprieve and protections that she worked to mobilize. As a Somali and a Muslim, Jama said the Warehouse Worker Protection Act ensures some equity in Minnesota’s facilities.” In this episode of Working People, TRNN Editor-in-Chief Maximillian Alvarez talks with Jama about moving to the midwest as a child, about her path to working in healthcare and at Amazon, and about the incredible story of how Khali, her coworkers, and the team at the Awood Center, which organizes in Minnesota’s East African communities, fought to pass the Warehouse Worker Protection Act.
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Khali Jama:
Hello to everyone who’s listening to this podcast. My name is Khali Jama from all the way, cold winter city called Minnesota. I’ve been here for decades living in between Minnesota and other states, but I made my living here in Minnesota for the benefit of my children. I am one of the organizers who organized Amazon. I never been an organizer, but I always fought and had voices for places I go to, I see anything that is not fair or right, I always speak out.
Maximillian Alvarez:
All right. Well, welcome everyone to another episode of Working People, a podcast about the lives, jobs, dreams, and struggles of the working class today. Brought to you in partnership with In These Times Magazine and the Real News Network, produced by Jules Taylor and made possible by the support of listeners like you. Working People is a proud member of the Labor Radio Podcast Network. So if you are hungry for more worker and labor focus shows like ours, follow the link in the show notes and go check out the other great shows in our network. And please support the work that we are doing here at Working People so we can keep growing and keep bringing y’all more important conversations with our fellow workers every single week. You can do that by leaving us positive reviews on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. You can share these episodes on your social media, and of course, share them with your coworkers, your friends, and your family members.
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My name is Maximilian Alvarez and I am really excited to get a chance to talk with our incredible guest, Khali, today. As you guys heard Khali has been deeply involved with frankly some of the most important worker organizing victories that we have seen this year or in recent memory, coming out of Minnesota. There’s just been so much intense rank and file struggle happening over there in Minnesota, and Khali’s been there with her coworkers in the thick of it. And we really wanted to find time on the show to talk about this recent landmark victory by Amazon workers in Minnesota, which I know a lot of you guys listening have heard about because you’ve asked us about it. So we’re going to dig into all of that today. And if you haven’t heard about it, I wanted to kick us off by just reading a couple passages from a great article in The Nation, which we will link to in the show notes.
This article is titled Minnesota Enacts Landmark Protections for Amazon Warehouse Workers, and it is co-authored by Abdirahman Muse, Emma Greenman and Erin Murphy. And so the authors write in this piece, “Minnesota has learned the hard way about the human cost of Amazon’s soaring profits in the company’s ever-expanding footprint. After Amazon arrived in the state eight years ago, the company imported its high-tech business model and dangerous management practices that have made its warehouses one of the most unsafe places to work in Minnesota. Inside Minnesota warehouses, Amazon’s injury and turnover rate are astronomical. There’s one injury on the job for every nine Amazon warehouse workers every year. This is twice the rate of injury at non-Amazon warehouses in Minnesota, and more than four times the rate at private industries. These high injury rates are directly attributable to how Amazon manages workers in their warehouses, enforcing an excessively rapid pace of work through the system of electronic surveillance and discipline that Amazon has pioneered. Workers tell us they push themselves to the brink, racing against a machine with quotas set by algorithms that treat them like robots, not like human beings.
And while this is a problem across Amazon warehouses, in Minnesota, the problem is 30% higher than the national average. The Warehouse Worker Protection Act has the power to change this. The bill requires employers to provide warehouse workers with written information about all quotas and performance standards they are subject to, in addition to how these quotas and standards are determined. Employers must provide this information in the workers’ primary language, a crucial requirement for warehouses in our state where more than 86,000 Somali born immigrants and family members live. Importantly, the bill also stipulates that employers cannot fire or take disciplinary action against a worker who fails to meet a quota that wasn’t disclosed, disarming one of the primary excuses Amazon may use to punish or fire workers who seek better conditions or to organize. The bill also mandates that if Amazon or a particular work site has a rate of injury 30% higher than the year’s industry average, the Minnesota Commissioner of Labor and industry will open an investigation.
Finally, the bill establishes a private right of action for workers, meaning current or former workers can bring a civil suit for damages and injunctive relief to obtain compliance with this law. And this bill doesn’t just cover Amazon workplaces, it applies to all warehouses with more than 250 workers at a site or 1,000 across the state.”
So it really can’t be overstated how seismic of a victory this is against the second-largest private employer in the United States, owned by one of the richest human beings on the planet. And so I wanted to just start by sending all of our love and solidarity to Khali and her coworkers and everyone involved in this fight, and to just really give them a huge shout-out for fighting that fight because it took a lot and it took a number of years to get to where we are now. And as I said, we’re going to dig into that fight. We’re going to talk more about what this bill means.
But Khali, before we get there, I would love to just sit and chat a little more about you and your backstory. So I was wondering if we could… you said that you had moved around a bit. Where did you grow up as a kid?
Khali Jama:
I came to Minnesota ending of ’93. And beginning of ’94, in between. My mom always say ’93 and ’94. So we were the second Somalian generation who came to Minnesota from Somali from the war. And me coming to the US, I was around, I believe nine or eight years old. So I didn’t have a lot of my background mentality from back home coming here. We went straight to school. It was okay, but my mother struggled. As an immigrant mother in Minnesota at that time was really, really cold. Right now, I think we have no global warming, I believe weather. Weather is getting better, but we still have straight nine months of snow. So coming to America, we were never warned about the situation and the living. As my mother always told us, “I came to give you guys a better life, a better living from what we come from.”
So living here, we got adapt to the lifestyle here because I came in young. But one of the thing I was more interested in at that time, because from in Africa, unless your family comes from money or good background, you really don’t get education. And that’s the difference between America. That’s what people say america is the dream world, where you dream it happened. Which is true, if you put your mind to it. But coming here and just as an immigrant and always getting bullied and being different with the African-American community, with the Asian, with the Latinas, we didn’t fit in because we were Black, but we still didn’t fit in the African-American community. They didn’t like us. They called us names, horrible names, Caucasian. It was just so confusing, because at that time, I think they didn’t have a lot of Black people living here as much as a bigger cities, like New York and Seattle and stuff like that.
So just living here, feeling different, because coming from back home, people loved each other. We didn’t know poor or rich or middle class, because everyone we shared, coming from that shared, the war made you love one another. Give what you have to your neighbors, your friends, whatever. So it was challenging growing up in Minnesota as a teenager. I ended up moving away because I couldn’t deal with it. But I had a brother who passed away years back that was more advocate to this Somalian community, the new refugee who will help make their family members understand. So I have his background, because I always used to help him walk on the streets, help kids who didn’t understand their family members. Because the culture with the religion was really difficult for a lot of family members that didn’t understand the way life goes here compared to back home.
So coming from that, I always fought for anybody. Whenever I went somewhere, I fought. So one of our fight that we won be in Minnesota the first time was the hijab. As a Muslims, we could not get in. My mom wore those big cover clothes and she was getting difficult, places were calling her thief. She was getting harassed because of what she was wearing. They would lie about her and say she tucked things underneath. It was a crazy time between ’95 all the way to ’98. So we fought that. We had to make people understand. And we fought for the translating, to get a translator in schools, certain places. But I left in ’97, moved to New York City. I was in between New York and DMV. So I came here once I had my kids, because I didn’t want to raise my kids in a big city.
I knew how a struggle it was there as a single parent. So when I got pregnant, I moved here with my daughter. Then I had my son here. I stayed here ever since 2002, once I got married. So I never left. But once I got married, as a single mom, I always put my kids first. I put my life second, my education, everything. I wanted my kids to have the best of all what I couldn’t have and make them understand. So as a single mom, I always had two jobs. I always worked as a nursing assistant, personal care home, and I was always in a nursing field. And once my kids went to high school, I went and got my registered nurse. But long story short, once I lived here and stayed in Minnesota, warehouses was the second-easiest job to get because that works with my time because I worked overnight now hospital where I can come take my kids to school and then go to Amazon. It worked.
So long story short, I heard about Amazon 2018 when they did the walkout and all that. I wasn’t working there then. I worked in a hospital and I worked in assisted living, so I didn’t have time. But once COVID hit, the death rise, the COVID, the assisted living, a lot of older people passed away. So the job got less, hours got less. So a friend of mine came to me and he’s like, “Hey, there’s a place called Amazon.” So our coworker was like, “Cool.” She said, they have a flex thing called flex. You can pick up whenever days you want, make your money that you do. You don’t deal with anyone, you deal with the app. So I was like, that’s kind of cool. You make your own schedule.
And there’s also a shift that is four nights, back half nights. They do Friday to Sunday, 12 hour shift. Front half nights, they do Sunday to Wednesday. You go in 5:00 to 3:30 in the morning. So I’m like, “Actually 5:00 PM to 3:30, that’s perfect for me, once I get off this job.” So I start working there. When you are middle class and you trying to make up and your kids are going to college, you need that extra money. So for me it was weekly pay too. Who doesn’t want to get paid weekly?
So I was like, “That’s better than instead of waiting two weeks.” So it was good when I first started. So when I went, first it was so confusing there, a whole interview thing, it’s an app email, which a lot of job uses. And then some of their people, when I’m trying to ask direction and things, will have attitude. I’m like, ‘What kind of company gives you attitude?” They set you up for interview. It is not my fault that I can’t find the location. But that was confusing. I didn’t make nothing of it. And then they said choose. So when you go for an interview, you’re thinking like you’re sitting there with questions. So the interview is basically, you’re getting the card, you are already hired, but they just don’t tell you. You’re basically going to get your card, registration and want to go for your orientation.
So we went to the orientation. We were like 30 people on our rotation, and majority of those people were Somalians and Latinas. So what threw me out at the time was they were speaking English the whole time, but none of the people out of seven of us understood the language. So I thought that was kind of weird and I was like-
Maximillian Alvarez:
That’s nuts.
Khali Jama:
And I was like, “How does people going to understand?” So the Somalians, once we see each other will come, “Hey Somali, can you help me?” So I was like, “Sure. This is what he said.” The guy just came, I’m like, “Hey, you know they’re not understanding you guys?” So he brushed it off. So I said, “Okay, I guess this must be a thing.” Maybe they have translators inside. I don’t know. I didn’t want to judge a company until I know it for myself.
So we got done that 10 hours, which was nothing. You barely learned anything but how much Amazon wants you to reach and what the goals are. They were not talking about safety and these certain things. I’m like, “I know I have not got a job for years, but this is not what organization is supposed to be.” Because organization is supposed to teach you about the company, your rights, where you have rights to, how the company flows, what you need to know around the company that you’re working for. So there’s a thing called three days or seven days of flow training. So they have a site called pick and sowing. So I got hired for sowing.
So as they were training us, first you’re standing up for 10 hours. Actually eight and a half hours you stand up for it. The waters are not nearby because when I started it was winter, it was still COVID the first time, 2020. So it was okay. 2022, there was still COVID. So when I started getting on the floor for three days, because I speak the language, I understood, so I learned a little bit faster. So I was like, “I’m just ready to do this.” And I did it and she showed that you’re doing good. So this is what they tell you. You have 90 days to make mistakes or to learn. No one will punish you or discipline you or no write-ups, which is a lie. I found out they say they give you 90 days, but you still can get fired that 90 days, without a question.
So I was like, “Okay, fine.” So I knew the job. I didn’t think the job was hard. I just didn’t think it’s fair on the condition that we were working on. So on the second week I’m working with a lady, it’s like literally five feet away from me, coughing, vomiting, and cannot go home. So I didn’t understand that.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Jesus.
Khali Jama:
And I’m like, “How is this normal?” It still in COVID, even though it’s 2022, we still in COVID. COVID wasn’t cleared yet. So we’re still wearing masks. So I was like, “Okay, maybe you are overreaching.” Because my kids always tell me, “Mom, you overthink too much.” I said maybe she talked to somebody. So I stayed there. Break time came in, I went to the person. I said, “You should go and talk to the managers and let them know you’re not feeling good because I don’t feel safe working next to you. It’s still COVID and I feel like we’re touching the same things. We’re touching the same table, same items. I need to know that I’m safe.”
So she said, “I can’t go.” I said, “Why you can’t go?” She was like, “Because I don’t have…” So VTO is a volunteer time that they give you. Personal time is called UPT, and the vacation. So if you don’t have either one of those, you cannot go home. So I said, “That’s crazy.” So I didn’t pay mind. I’m like, “There’s no way they can do that.” So I said, maybe this person just loved making money, they don’t want to go home. That’s how I took it until it happened to me. So working there after a month later, I got really ill. I got really sick. The summer when it comes in with the allergy, my nose and I have my own health issues.
I got really sick. I didn’t have those hours. I didn’t have any personal time because they give you personal time as you work. And the VTO, every shift, every day that you work, it adds up only one hour. So we work 40 hours a week, Sunday to Wednesday, from 5:00 to 3:30. So if you miss a day, you don’t get a VTO. That’s the unpaid time. You get an hour or 30 minutes every shift you work. Imagine, you working 40 hours, 30 an hour every shift you work, would that even add up to 40? No, it’ll take at least two months before it adds up to 40, right?
And there’s a thing called personal time. They give you every 90 days 10 hours. What does 10 hours do for you? And you got to wait every 90 days. And I think it only has up to six months that you can get that, only if you’re new. If you’re not new, you don’t even get that personal time. So when I got sick, I didn’t have any of that because I used a couple of the hours here and there coming in late or the traffic holding me during the winter. So I only had an hour and two hours of my vacation. So I came to the manager, I told the manager, “I’m really sneezing. I don’t feel good. I need to go home. I’m feeling dizzy, nauseous.” Because I was sneezing a lot, it is a big warehouse. So when my manager was like, “Okay, I don’t know what I can do for you, but you can go to the HR and talk to them.”
So I walked to this HR, which, I do not like them. I don’t even know the reason they are there because they cannot do anything for you, which I’m going to learn the hard way. And I go there because anyone tell you go to the HR. ‘That’s a plus, right? Either they’re going to do something or they help you with something. So I go to her, and I tell this lady, she’s like, “Oh,” before I even say anything, say, “Oh, do you have any personal time?” “No.” “Do you have BTO?” “No.” “Do you have vacation?” I’m like, “No, I only have one hour. I already told the manager, he sent you all the information we spoke about.” She was like, “Oh no, no, no, no. I didn’t talk to him.” So first miscommunication, there’s no communication there. So the managers, with the HR, with the office, they don’t even know what’s going on on the floor or whatever.
That’s one thing I got from the first meeting that I met with the HR. And I said, “I’m not feeling well. I need to go home.” She said, “You cannot go home.” I said, “What do you mean I cannot go home? I don’t feel well.” She said, “Either you quit or if you walk out you automatically fired.” I was like, “What? But I’m not feeling well. I cannot stand for another eight and a half hours. I know my body.” And this is the head of the HR. So she was like, “There’s nothing I can do. Either you go back to work, or we let you go. You don’t have a choice.” So I said, “What does it take for me to go home? Do I have to faint or fall?” She said, “That’s what it takes.” That word threw me off, pissed me off. I was like, “That is unhuman.”
Maximillian Alvarez:
Jesus man.
Khali Jama:
To treat anyone like that. And that was after we did the walkout and everything that was still acting up. So the whole reason I did the walkout was, I felt like with Amazon, is one of the richest company and I felt like… I’m sorry. When I first did the walkout, it wasn’t because of the working condition, the beginning. Because I already knew their working condition was horrible. I was talking to the laborer with Abduragman, the East African Community Award Center. So I reached out to them. So the reason I came out with the first walk is they will not let us celebrate Eid. I don’t know if you know what Eid is.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Mm-hmm. But or our listeners, go ahead and say a little bit about that.
Khali Jama:
So Eid, it’s a Islamic celebration. So we only get that twice a year. One for the 30 days of the Ramadan that we fast. And the second one, which is supposed to come up in June or July. So when I went there and first, you know how any job when you go to a job, you give them heads up because a lot of places don’t understand the Islamic religion?
So I always give them heads up, “Hey, next month is Ramadan. Within that month, we don’t know exactly what our day is, but in between these days I want to get off. You ask ahead and you get approval or not. You find out with Amazon they say, “No, no, no, just come back three days period to that.” Look how they manipulate the people who don’t understand the system. So I was like three days? Why do I have to take three days? I’m telling you no.” She said, “Either you do a two weeks leave of absence or you have to come in.” So I said, “You guys have it in your contract religious rights. I didn’t ask you to hire all Muslims. That is not my concern.”
Maximillian Alvarez:
That one’s on you guys.
Khali Jama:
That is not my concern. I’m sorry, but I didn’t tell you to hire a whole Somalian community who are Muslims. Because one of the words she say is, “Oh, we can’t afford all of you guys off.” I said, “That’s not our issue and our concern because we didn’t tell you to hire all Muslims.” When Christmas come, you guys shut it down. Memorial Day, for God’s sake, 4th of July we don’t work. And we can’t get the one day that we want to celebrate and we’re asking with no pay?
We’re not even asking you to pay us. Give us the option, whoever wants to work can work. Whoever don’t, let them able to have that day off. The lady was like, “I can’t stand African people like you that come to America trying to change it.” That threw me off. The next couple of days I asked anyone who wanted to walk out with me. So we did the walkout a time called Prime. I worked overnight. So from 5:00 to 3:30. So it starts from 11:00 to 13:00, there’s a Prime. So you know how you order something right now, and Amazon, it tell you within the next 24 hours you get delivery, right? So those stuff come in at 11:00 at night, every night, every shift. You have two hours to fill those orders out. They got to go within two hours.
So I’m 40. I’m working with a 19-year-old next me. We can’t have the same speed rate. You can’t put us in the same speed rate because a 19-year-old, even though I can be fast, I still don’t have the energy the way that kid moves. When you young, you have a different level of energy compared when you get to a certain age, I don’t know, maybe as a mother. So they made this lady who was like 80 some years old, works same speed rate as a 21 years old. So you have to do 2,500 by the end of your shift, at least, for the rate. And their rate means a speed. They watch your speed. So the computer tells you how fast you’re going. And if you go slow, guess what? No one’s going to come say anything after seven days later, they’ll come to you.
You already got a writeup that you don’t know nothing about. You don’t even know you have a writeup until they come to you that week after and tell you how horrible you was, how bad your rate was, that if you don’t keep up, they won’t even hesitate. They will tell you, if you don’t keep up, you are fired. Straight up on your face. No hesitation. So tell me about someone who just came to United States less than a year who don’t know their rights, can’t speak their language, how can they fight back? They can’t, because to me, I was like, “That’s not fair and that’s who they hired.”
So I feel like they targeted certain people that works at Amazon that will handle… Because if you look at the highest speed, Amazon is majority of vulnerable adults. Ladies are like sixties, fifties, seventies are the fastest in there because they’re so afraid to lose their job. Because the young ones, they don’t last there. They come in, they’ll be like, “Oh, I’m not going to deal with this craziness. I can get a better job.” And they leave. Their turnover is crazy. They hire 30 people every other Sunday, and out of that 30 there’ll be like 10 or seven or six people who remains.
So when I start observing most of their orientation, I noticed the only hire specific type of people. And I’m like this is why Amazon is getting away with it. Because the majority of the people that work here don’t know their rights. So what I started doing is pulling up some cards, making up rights of cards, asking another colleague if we can have to print them out in Somali and in English. And I passed around because majority of the workers there out of 100%, 75% to 85% are Somalians, people who work there. Most the Somali race. And the second one is Latinas, the third, African Americans.
And then one thing I also noticed that pissed me off and did the protest and organized it more, is I felt like there was a race thing going on in Amazon. Because there was a Caucasian lady, I’m sorry, there was this white lady that got injured but they found her a place, for her to sit and work. But when majority of Somalian people get injured or anything, they end up staying home or not allowed to come because they can’t find a job for them, which I think is crap because I see others who get this job, and I’m like, “Why can’t you spend that job or make it more bigger for others when injury happening?” Injury that you guys costing it. Because people are so afraid to lose their job.
I say I’m not afraid to lose Amazon, I can’t get a job anywhere I want because I know what I’m worth. But I know these people coming from different countries not understanding the system. They come to this country to… When we come to America, when we look in America, this is a dream. A country that literally can make you or break you. Either you make it or you don’t, but you have 90% of a chance to make it. I think it depends on the person, how bad they want it. So when people come to America, they come for opportunity, for a better life, not to be abused or mistreated at warehouses. And the reason why I fought this fight so hard, I want people to understand America is not what people put out there for. And coming to America will make you, as long as you follow the laws and what’s your rights and what you deserve. So I started talking to a lot employees-
Maximillian Alvarez:
I was just going to say, because I think that’s such a powerful point. And I want to hover on that for a second for people listening. So let’s make sure in our minds to pause. We’re at the moment in this story where you are leading these walkouts, you’re talking to your coworkers and educating them about their rights. You’re producing material that’s available in English and Somali. So we will come back to that in a second. But it made me think about what you were talking about when you got to Minnesota when you were nine, and just how much of a culture shock that must have been. Because I was in Minneapolis a couple of months ago, in the middle of winter. And I was in a cab talking to a Somali American driver about how we were not made for this weather.
My family’s Mexican. And when I show up to the Midwest like that, I’m like, “Fuck that. This is not what my people were made for.” And we were just joking about how you adjust to a place that cold but also, just so much else that you have to adjust to. I just wanted to ask if you could say a little more about that experience for you and for your coworkers. Because I imagine folks listening to this are maybe wondering why are there so many Somali immigrants in Minneapolis and what is it like adjusting to life there. And then, like my family, so like many other immigrant families working hard, trying to get that American dream, what is it like fighting that fight and then realizing just how exploitative employers are and how much people take advantage of you and try to actually prevent you from realizing that dream.
Khali Jama:
And how racist. I’m not going to lie to you, I didn’t know what race was until I came to America. I didn’t understand what race was until I came to United States. And I didn’t really fully understand racism until I went to high school, and bullying. Because Africa, there’s no such thing as bullying. There’s discipline. Imagine, back home, a teacher can whoop you for disrespecting your older. So I come from a background of respecting our olders. One of the shocking things for me when I first came to the United States from Africa was how ungrateful the children, the kids of America are. I hope no one takes it the wrong way. When I say that is, when you come from country that you have to pay for education or you don’t get no education, or everything is money. And then you come to a country that’s telling you, “Here’s a free education, learn, be a better person.”
And then you see children who disrespect teachers. Because teachers to us, those are the people who bring our future to us, teach us to be better in life, in the future. So my most shocking thing was coming here, going to school and the disrespect towards the teachers who were teaching us things, and how kids were just so ungrateful to the teachers. But then as I lived here, it’s a normal thing. It became normal because it’s the mentality of American way. Where Africa, we couldn’t disrespect teachers, we can’t talk back to the teacher. You can’t be a minute late, you can’t have a dirty socks on, dirty fingernails. It was a discipline that you had to follow in order to be in school. Because when we went to school, that’s for you to be better in your life, not for your teacher. Your teacher already has her life in there. This is your beginning. So it’s more appreciation.
That’s what I didn’t understand how America, they don’t appreciate the opportunities that come with education. That was one of the culture shocking. And now I think, compared 20 years ago, and now it’s different because now I feel like it’s a little more traditional, Somalia. Minnesota is a little Somalia to me because the culture really expand. Everywhere you go, you see a lot of different and diverse cultures, all this. It wasn’t like this back in 90’s. It was really, I used to call, “I think we live in a village, this cannot be America.” And my mom used to be like, “No, this is part of America.” Because we didn’t choose to come to Minnesota. When you coming, they already chose where you’re going. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a [inaudible 00:34:35].
Maximillian Alvarez:
This is like refugee, resettlement kind of place. We have a lot of refugees from the Vietnam War who were relocated to southern California where I grew up. And so there were just a lot more Vietnamese folks around. And I thought that was normal for everywhere in the country. But then I learned later that it’s not.
Khali Jama:
No. And I think it’s the way they do it, because when we were in a refugee camp and everything, and I was hearing New York, the most famous name was New York, Virginia, Washington, Seattle, DC, the big cities. And I’m like, “Ooh, America.” Because that’s what you see America in Africa, you don’t hear the small towns. You hear California but you don’t hear San Francisco or you don’t hear the small cities.
So coming here it was just different. And people’s like, “I don’t think you guys are going to America.” Know when you’re a kid and you’re talking nonsense. So I was like, “Yes, it’s America. What do you mean?” They’d be like, “No.” And once you come in to America, they give you this little American flag. I’m like, “We got the same flag.” So I remember me and this kid was going at it. And when I came and we saw the winter, we was like, ‘Oh my god, we’re about to die.” We felt like this cannot be America.
Maximillian Alvarez:
We got on the wrong flight. We ended up in Siberia or something.
Khali Jama:
It’s so funny, may God rest his soul. One of my brothers back home, we didn’t have fridge. So one of the rich neighbors that my mom worked for had a fridge. And they always, when you get hot, we’ll see the kids, that smoking coming out. So we didn’t experience that back home until we came here. So when we saw the snow, my brother made a comment. He said, “I think they want us to live inside the fridge the lady had.” Because he said, “No human can go out here.” When I mean Minnesota used to get cold back in 90’s, we had winter. You know how school starts in September, the beginning of September, the first week of school, the second week we already had snow all the way to November, December, February. So I tell people right now, this is not a snow. If you lived in Minnesota for the past 90’s, they used to have nine to 10 months straight of winter, the worst cold.
So when I went to New York, I learned the difference of in snow. But that was another shocking thing coming here and it was freezing. And I’m like, “They came to kill us. This is not America.” Because you see California, Miami. And I’d be like, “What is this?” And then Home Alone, we watched that back home. So we know the snow, but we didn’t see that snow that they show on TV. So it was really crazy. But we got adapted to it. We had to, we didn’t have a choice. I remember I had a frost bite couple of times because I wore the wrong shoes. It is common sense to wear boots, but when you come from nothing, you’re not understanding. And then at the time, I remember we didn’t have any clothes, nothing. So we had to wrap up with a blanket to get jackets and stuff, which was not fun.
So it was memories, but we still were grateful because we were somewhere with no war and my mom didn’t have to worry about us, where she going to get our next meal from. So it was a lot of benefit to it also. But just coming to America, for me as a young kid, until today, I appreciate that my mom brought me here because it made me the person I am and the woman I am. I don’t know if I was in Africa, if that would be the same. I think I’m a fast kid. I have such a big mouth. So as a woman in Africa, there’s certain way you can speak and you got to hold your tongue. Where America says free of speech, which sometimes I doubt the free of speech because I feel like it comes privileges with certain people. But I try always speak my mind and I always try to remind people, even though you’re in America, you fear God. Because at the end of the day, we all return to God.
Nothing is promised in this earth. Speak your mind. You see someone getting hurt, mistreated, you have to speak because you witnessed it. You have to be there. I don’t fear death or anything because I know I’m going to die sooner or later. So as a Muslim, we don’t live by day, we live by moment, because any moment your life can end. So every second and every moment of our life matters. Everything you do is written. So it matters how we do it when we do it. So me coming to Amazon, I felt like because if someone would come to me 10 years ago and be like, “Hey, let’s work in the warehouse,.” I’d be like, “You crazy. I’m never working in a warehouse.” But when you have a kid and you’re a single mother, sometimes life throws you certain ways. And I feel like this, me coming to Amazon, it was a way God’s sending me there because people were really struggling, especially my community and the Latinas.
I just didn’t like people working to lose their job. A company, if you don’t work good, they can train you. “Okay, you didn’t do good this, let me train you to be better.” And when you see that person’s not catching up, then that’s fair. But a person who doesn’t understand what’s going on the system, you work like crazy, 10 hours, you are back and forth in this little mini space. I don’t know if you ever get a chance, there’s Amazon TikTok, which they’re always trying to delete it, where we repost things in there, so maybe you guys can follow. It shows you the working condition. Now that this bill is passed, it’s changing. I hope it changed for better. I’m planning to leave because I didn’t want to leave until I knew this bill was passed. Because I felt like even when we organized the protest and we organized the rallies, a lot of people would sign up but when that day before come… So we used to do everything sneaky with them because when they found out, the crazy thing is they had so many snitches in there, it’s crazy.
Everything I did was known. So we had to hide because we found out that every time we did something, Amazon found out and increase the dollar pay or make more money through that day, whoever stayed in the shift, because they didn’t want people coming out. So we were playing like mouse and cat game. So we had to be careful how we do our rallies because they were putting fears on people. When we did the first walkout, Amazon let go a lot of people, fired a lot of people, which most of the people didn’t understand. I told them I wish they would’ve fired me. I want them to fire me because I want to see why am I getting fired for speaking my rights and speaking what I believe in. If I don’t feel safe and my back is hurting and I don’t feel too comfortable to work or feel too good to work, I shouldn’t put my health in danger.
I should be able to go home. I should be able to get a sick pay. I shouldn’t be able to have a doctor note to come back. If you work in Amazon before, and let’s say flu season, it comes whenever weather changes. And a lot of people get cold. And sometimes some people can’t go home because Amazon’s going to tell them, “Oh, you’re going home sick, you don’t have any of these hours. We need to proof that you were sick.” Can you imagine that?
So every time you get a cold, you got to bring a doctor note proof. I said, “Do you know a lot of people don’t even have insurance?” No one can afford to go to a clinic just to prove that they had flu. This is Minnesota. Everybody knows we go through flu season. The season changes, it’s allergy. So I’m like, “Why would you guys do that?” Because I had to do it. I couldn’t get my [inaudible 00:42:14]. And then when they ask you for the doctor note, the crazy part is they want to know what your illnesses was, what you went to see to the doctor for. I don’t know if your job ever asked you that.
Maximillian Alvarez:
No. Well actually, when I used to work at a warehouse in Southern California, it wasn’t Amazon, but they would say that. And so, like you, we just basically would come to work sick. I was like, “Well I can’t afford to go to a doctor and get a note.” They just made the rules. It was such a high barrier to clear that no one went and got a doctor’s note.
Khali Jama:
What threw me off was they wanted to know the reason I went to the doctor. Did you not tell me to bring a doctor note? Did you not see my nose, me coughing? What other reason do you need?
Maximillian Alvarez:
That’s nut.
Khali Jama:
And the crazy thing is you don’t deal with a person. You’re dealing with a phone. That’s the second-craziest thing. You’re dealing with a phone. And then if you wanted to talk to someone, the people that their customer service is, they don’t speak English, they’re worse than the other person. I’m not trying to bash any one community, but it is like majority Indians and they have huge accent. I’m already struggling with my accent, and sometimes when I’m on the phone with them, I have to hang up 20, 30 times just to get someone who can speak English that I can have better understanding with. Because if you guys have a misunderstanding, you losing your job. Because guess what? Amazon’s not going to go after their customer service. They’re going to go after that employee. You didn’t do your part, you didn’t get this part. Sometimes their machine, their app don’t even work or post or whatever you sent. It won’t send. And you don’t know, but your phone tells you it’s been sent. But on their side, you get in trouble.
You didn’t do this. So Amazon never take a blame for their parts. And that’s what drove me crazy there. And then when I go to the main HR, which they have an office, which I don’t know why, they can’t help you. They’ll be like, “Oh, there’s nothing I could do. You got to call upper people.” What is upper people? What are you here for? Why I need to call upper people if you already here? And they’ll be like, “Oh, our hands is tied.” Why is your hand tied? You can’t help me to see if I can go home. You can’t help me to see why my PTO was taken away? And then this is the crazy thing. So remember how I tell you I start my shift at 5:00 PM to 3:30? Amazon gives me 30, 20 minutes, hour every other day, if you work that shift. If you don’t, you don’t get that.
So let’s say I was late, I came in at 6:00. They’ll take a whole hour away from me. Isn’t that crazy?
Maximillian Alvarez:
Man.
Khali Jama:
And that hour is still unpaid. I still clock in at six because my pace starts at six. But the hour, they will take that whole hour a half and I’m going to go negative, the fact that I came in at six. If you don’t have any hours, so they put you on negative. And that negative would send you a text message every three minutes. That will drive you crazy and it will put the fear on you because their message saying, “Warning, termination, negative.” Imagine you get a text message like that every 3 minutes. You’d be like, what’s going on?
Sometimes the computer will put wrong negative on you. Sometimes I’ll have 10 hours and I’ll look up my A to Z app, and I’m like, “How did I have five hours?” They will take hours. So I felt like they were doing that to certain people who didn’t understand the system. I was like, I can go and fight and be like, “I knew I had 10 hours in here.” Why is my five hours taken away? Because I know this system. Because after it happened to me a couple of times, I always double check it. But a lot of people who get hired there don’t understand that system. People will come to be like, can you translate? Can you read this for me? And I’m like, you guys have majority of Somalians and Latinas here, you have Spanish, but how can you not have the majority worker language that you have in this facility? And where I worked at was called MSP1, it’s the number one Amazon in the whole United States that makes the highest rate.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Wow.
Khali Jama:
Isn’t that crazy? And they treat you like dirt. I used to speak my mind. There was a time, my manager told me, he said, “Your mouth will put you in trouble.” I said, “That’s okay because I’m not going to be quiet. You guys, a lack of safety.” And then in the summer, I won’t even talk about it in the summer, you will die in there. And their fans are so high. They have, one station site is what? Like 20 stations. They have six fans spaced out. Let’s say you bring your own fan. Why should I bring my own fan? Fine. You dying in there. Because I sweat a lot when I worked there, so I brought my own fan. The water is hot. So when you leave your station, let’s say you got to go pee because you’re drinking a lot of water to stay dehydrated.
And you go, you be like, “Okay, I’m going to go to the bathroom.” So they have four floors. Each floor has two toilet on each side. So it depends what station you were. Some stations take five minutes, some six. So it depends. So you go, let’s say the one on the right side, and what’s called north side. I go there to the bathroom and it’s occupied. Okay. So I need to use the bathroom. So I might go to the next floor or walk to the opposite side to see in the same floor so I can make it on time if it’s there. Let’s say it’s occupied, because there’s people who love to sit on the toilet eventually, and it’s occupied. So you running around trying to find, and eventually you get the bathroom, but while you running around, your time increases. So you’ve gone 20 minutes just trying to find somewhere to pray or somewhere to run to or use the bathroom because the bathroom are distance. And you come there, your station locks you out.
So you have to call the manager to unlock you out. And then they don’t tell you nothing that whole week. Seven days go by, you come to work. Oh, just you here starting, be like, “Oh, we need to talk to you, come.” Pull you aside. “What’s going?” “Oh, guess what? Last week you did horrible. You were gone this long.” It’s called time task. And I’m like, “Why y’all have to wait seven days to tell me? Aren’t you’re supposed to come the next day and let me know?” Like hey, so I can change my behavior or something that I’m doing wrong, but why you have to wait for seven days pass or another 15 days for you guys to come and tell me what I did wrong? So a lot of people… I know a guy that was working next to me, they came to him, they said, “Let’s go.” Next thing I knew, I didn’t see the guy anymore.
And then I asked around, eventually talked to him, he said, “Oh, they fired me.” I said, “What happened? How’d they fire you?” He said, “Oh, I had six write-ups that I didn’t even know about.” I said, “What? Didn’t you not get into your data?” “No.” So Amazon won’t show you your data, they won’t show you your rates. It is a lot of things they hide from. And people don’t understand that they were supposed to let us know about and teach us about. So if I’m working a station, I need to know how much I rate, how much I made that night, so I can know how to work with my speed, my body, able to catch up with it. Because there’s kids who are making faster than you. Not everyone works in the same speed to me. I’m speaking on my own. So I was like, okay.
So I had a lot of back issues. So I started to notice because I felt like I was trying to catch up and do my part of the job. But then every time I went in and I felt sick, Amazon didn’t care. So I was like, why would I put my hard work for company don’t care about my health. I got cut one time. They’re not supposed to have sharp objects, sometimes they do. It’ll come in a wrong delivery. If it came wrong, I let the manager know. He was like, “Okay.”
So one time it was this box. I didn’t know it was going to be heavy. It looked really light. Trying to grab it, it was a really heavy box, but it was metal. It was not supposed to be there. And another time, I had this liquid that got damaged in there. So I didn’t know it was damaged. As I opened the box, it came up and it messed up my hands. The whole month my hands felt weird, hard, scratchy. And I went to them, “I said, I don’t know, something’s spilled in my hand. I don’t know. Is there anywhere I can wash my hand?” They say, “Yeah, over there, the bathroom.” They didn’t even care.
So it’s just when I was working there, honestly, I was doing my part of work, trying to catch up with the race. So one of the reasons I came out, did the protest, is what I experienced and I spoke. So that’s why I always said I speak of my experience in Amazon. I can’t speak for everyone, but I noticed other people were going through the same. But I spoke about what really happened to me and how they treated me. And when I went there, they made it seem like it’s nothing. And then I went to a place called MCare, which I really don’t know why that place exists. So when you go to any clinic, they ask you if you have allergies before they offer you any painkiller. Amazon don’t ask you nothing. They say, “Oh, you have headache, we have ibuprofen. What do you want?”
First ask me, do I have allergies? Do I have any medication allergy? What if I take it and I can have the allergy and I don’t know. Now all these people know the allergies. You’re supposed to be careful about that stuff. You calling yourself a MCare, a clinic station to help people. Another time I was fasting and I got really dehydrated. So we fast, the past, we were fasting 10 hours, nine hours, it depends. And I went and I was like, “I’m really not feeling well.” I felt dizzy. I’ve been standing, it’s really hot, the station I’m in. There’s no fan but some station you can barely even move. You’ll make one, two step, one, two step, back to stock things.
So I was like, “I’m not feeling good. Can I lay down?” And this guy told me, “Oh no, we can’t let you lay down. We only got three beds, in case someone who’s injured or back comes here.” I said, “But I feel nauseous and I can’t stand and I can’t sit. I can’t lay?” He said, No, we can’t let you lay down.” Can you imagine that? And I was really dizzy and nauseous. Knowing that, when you’re fasting as Muslim, we don’t eat or drink. And I was working in a speed rate. It was my fault. I forgot to eat that night before, but it was already too late. But I didn’t think I’ll get that dizzy.
But going there, they let you rest for 30 minutes. So I said, “Can I rest for that 30 minutes?” And he said, “No. Is your arm broken?” I was like, “No.” “Is your back off?” I’m like, “What question is that?” But they was like, “No, you can’t. That’s for someone that gets their arm or finger cut this.” I said, “If a person finger cut, better be at the emergency, why are they here? They shouldn’t be in this room.” So basically they were doing whatever they want. The MCare people did not care. There was only one guy who always care, but he was never there. That was the only person I ever seen that will ask, you have allergies, everything’s okay if you need an ice, this. And sometimes you’ll walk around the floor to come and ask people. Because that’s what the MCare is supposed to do.
And there was another time, another new coworker, he was from South Africa, I believe, was vomiting in front of me. And I said, “Hey, you okay?” He said, “I don’t feel good. I feel dizzy.” So we grabbed a couple boxes, we just sit down. Another coworker went and got water. It was hot that day. So we called the station, which they took forever to come. Once they came, we said, “Hey, this guy cannot walk. He literally been throwing up until you guys guys came in. Can he get a wheelchair?” And one of them MQ was like, “No, he can walk. He should walk his butt off.” And I’m like, “What? The guy can barely stand.” So I got mad. I said, “I dare you to make him walk, and you will see what we’re going to do.” So he turned around, “He said, oh, you that troublemaker?”
I said, “You can call me whatever you want, but you’re not going to make a person we just saw vomiting, barely can stand, to walk all the way to the other side of the building. No.” That guy hated me ever since. Every time he sees me, he rolled his eyes, but I didn’t care. I’m like, you here to save people. I’m a nurse. Anyone I see, as a CPR, that’s the first thing I react to. If you calling yourself a nurse, how are you not allowing a person who just told you was throwing up, could barely stand? We had to grab boxes for him to sit down on it, and you’re trying to make that person walk? How is that human? So it was just, I don’t know if it’s the company, if the company knows, but I feel like the people within the building, like those managers, supervisors, they just do whatever they feel like. They treat however.
Some people feel like they have title to Amazon. I’m like, “I don’t own Amazon. I’m here to make my money and move on.” But I’m not going to let them treat me otherwise because some manager think he owns Amazon or some supervisor or some upper manager. I’m not going to take that. I always spoke my mind, but I noticed there’s a lot of Latinas and Somali community could not speak. Because some of them are like, “Khali, I want to be part of the fight. I want to come in and fight with you, but I’m scared to lose my job.” And I couldn’t get mad at them because I don’t know their situation. I don’t know what they’re going through, what their challenges in life is. Because everyone comes from different backgrounds. So I didn’t get mad people who didn’t come out, but I knew they were supporting from the back. They were there, but I can’t get mad at them because I always said, just speak out, do this.
And that’s one of the reason now it’s so important, after all this is done, Amazon to be unionized. Because I think once Amazon is unionized, they can’t treat employees like that, because union fights for the employee rights. And I feel like with Amazon, my fear, most of my fear was, I wanted to leave Amazon a couple of times because I was getting frustrated with some of the managers there and the supervisors, so-called supervisors who don’t do anything. But the reason I wanted to leave was I was getting frustrated with their workload because it felt like…
So there was a time called peak season. I don’t know if you guys ever heard, it’s called Prime. So I worked four days, 5:00 to 3:30. So that peak season is a month, and I think 10 days or a month a week. That month and week you have to work five days straight, 12 hour shift and no excuse. You either ill, cannot move, your doctor said you can’t work. I had like 10, 15 people quit those days. I had ladies who didn’t have babysitters, but Amazon said We need to prove that you don’t have a babysitter. And I said, “What? How do you bring a proof that you don’t have a babysitter?” And people was like, “Can we do 10 hours, seven days instead of 12 hours? Because I have a kid that get off school.” And in wintertime it’s different here.
Maximillian Alvarez:
It’s just like, I just wanted to shout something for people listening. Notice the double standard here. When someone like Khali goes to HR in their separate building and says, “I need answers.” And they say, “Well, we can’t give you any answers, sorry, tough luck.” Then that’s it. But when a worker can’t find someone to watch their kid, Amazon needs eight different forms filled out to prove that. It’s just if they applied half as much scrutiny to their damn selves as they do to workers, maybe things would be operating a little bit better. But that’s just so infuriating.
Khali Jama:
And it’s crazy. And a lot of people had to quit because some of the people in Minnesota, especially in the city we live in, state, winter time, buses come late or they get stuck. So you have to be prepared anytime, any day if the weather’s good or bad, because we just didn’t know what kind of weather. And even when we had storms and people couldn’t come in, a lot of people got fired because some people couldn’t make it to work. But Amazon didn’t care. You didn’t have those hours, you can’t, there’s no saving. You have to bring a reason why you’re calling me. So if there’s a storm, I’m like, “Hey, it’s a storm. I don’t feel safe to drive there.” Because I drove 50 to 45 minutes to 50 minutes over there. So when the storm hit, either I left early because in the morning, I could take my time to get home.
But when I knew the storm was coming, I always left early. But other warehouses around Amazon was shut down except Amazon. And how is this okay? They can see people are struggling to come in and then when they’re short-staffed, that’s when the abuse actually kicks in. They come and pressure you. And I used to tell them, for me, I was like, “Why don’t you come…?” Because I remember there was a manager that came to me, had an attitude. He was like, “Oh yeah, you think you can do this?” I said, “I don’t think I can do anything, but I’m going to make sure I don’t damage myself and injure my body and work smart, not work hard.” So if that thing is too heavy, I’m not going to lift it. I only signed for 50 pounds or less, not more on my contract, so I’m not going to do that.
And they’ll be like, “Oh, you have to do it.” I’m like, “I’m not going to injure my body. I’m sorry.” I’ll do my part of work, but I’m not going to lift something heavy that I can’t lift. But they would come back, “Oh you didn’t listen to your manager, you’re getting a write-up.” The crazy thing is I never got a write-up. When I went back and I said I need the record of all my write-ups, they was like, “You don’t have none.” So they mentally abuse you also by scaring you off. Nobody wants to hear write up. So that was one of their favorite things. People was always getting write up or not knowing they’re getting write up. So one of the things we need to know, even if a manager write me up, I need to have that knowledge that I got a write up or I got a warning. But how you just fire someone without any consent, don’t even know what’s going on, what mistake they made? “Oh no, he was too slow.” Imagine getting fired because you were too slow.
That threw me off. I’m like, people come to work to make a better living. Trust me, if people had other choices, they would’ve, but people come to work. We come to work to do better. When I came to work, I did my part. I just wanted Amazon to do their part. When we get injured, we get sick. And at that time you don’t understand the bad background of injury Amazon has. There was another Amazon MSP6, where a lady literally, stomach fell into a part. This [inaudible 01:01:48] came down to her. She was too short and she was trying to reach it and it fell on her stomach and cut her off.
I guess she didn’t know how to fight them. And that’s one of the other fights that motivated me to fight Amazon to the court. When she fought them, I guess they paid for her bills, whatever, but when she came back 30 days or 60 days prior to that, they fired her. I believe, my opinion, once Amazon won the fight, knew this lady was not coming after them, because you couldn’t sue Amazon. You can’t go after them. And that’s why this bill was so important that we were fighting. If you get injured in a company, you should able to sue them for what you believe is your right. Right? Because I felt like, besides their turnover, it is just the workload was crazy. The age that they were hiring was ridiculous to me. It was a lot of older ages. I was the youngest and I’m 40.
Majority of the people worked there were really old. Even if you look at the Caucasian side, the African-American, the young ones, they come there, make their money and quit. You can always go back to Amazon. I can work Amazon 30 days and quit and go back after 30 days. I don’t even think they do any background check, to be honest. Because certain people that I work with there, they look like people who qualified the job. I’m not disrespecting anyone, but it’s just like the guy that I work with, there was a guy who literally drank at work. And I’m like, “How is this okay to allow someone drinking inside the job?” You can smell alcohol. But that guy never got fired. To me, I feel that because it was a color difference. That’s how I felt. But it is what it is. So it’s just, the things they did when it came to the African-American with the Latinos and Somali community, to me, it felt unfair because I experienced it.
They were buying within my people. There were people who spoke English, they came to me like, “You know what? It’s past you. Why you care? You don’t own Amazon. Why you care about these people? You go home.” I go, “It is not about why.” I’m Muslim. As a Muslim person, I’m witnessing these things and I’ll be judged by my Lord. I don’t fear that humans here because no one goes with me when I die except my deeds. And one of the things my religion teach me is once you turn to God, what do you turn with? Because everywhere we are in life as Muslim people, we are there for a reason. Nothing just happened. Nothing’s ever accident. Everything happens in the willing of God besides what plans we make. So me being there, seeing things, I felt like it was a way for me to speak up for my community and others. And the crazy thing is the janitorial people that work there under union and Amazon is not. And when we start talking… So I made a rumor just to see if Amazon really listened.
Maximillian Alvarez:
You starting stirring up some more shit.
Khali Jama:
I just wanted to see because they were like, “Oh, she’s not going to do it.” They would go to people like, “Oh you see she’s losing.” Because it was a tough fight. I’m not going to lie to you. It was a lot of challenges. It was the toughest fight I ever been in. And sometimes we had ups and downs, but I was having faith. I said, “God will not put me here if it was.” So I was like, “I’m going to show you that Amazon is a liar and the do listen to everything we do.” And she was like, “How?” I said, “We going to pass rumors saying we going to do union cards.” Guess what? They had a union bust there within 24 hours.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Man.
Khali Jama:
Isn’t that crazy?
Maximillian Alvarez:
I’m going to lay this trap. They fell into that, right like that.
Khali Jama:
So that showed me, okay, they do follow-up, because how did they find out about us bringing a union in there? We just said it. We didn’t even have any union. Just said, okay, we’re going to pretend, me and one of my co-workers, let’s pretend like we’re going to do a union. So I spoke loud around certain managers, like “Yes, let’s unionize this.” So within 24 hours of that time though, we had three different union busters. They didn’t come to me, but they went to other workers saying, ‘Don’t listen to them, union just ‘gon take your money.” All that rubbish they say about unions and stuff. So people were coming to me, “Are we really going to be…?” I was like, “Now you know Amazon is following us.” They was like, “What?” I’m like, “I just said it just to see if they really do follow up with us or not.”
But this shows that they do, because within 24 hours that we use this word, and now we have three different busters and three different stations, three different locations. So that’s when I really got motivated and I said, it’s “It’s time for me to fight Amazon. I don’t care how rich, powerful you are.” And I always want people to remember this. And this earth is people who made it, not the rich people. People feel like the richer you are, the better you make this world. I don’t believe that. I believe people voice is way louder than any money, anything in this earth, if we come together. Because people voice is the most powerful thing we can ever have. And a lot of people don’t understand that. Right now, I’m doing a boycott against Target. And not in a bad way, just with them understanding what religious and beliefs of religion. Everybody can be what they want.
I’m Muslim. I don’t have nothing against LPG community because everyone has to deal with God when they return to him, because only him judge. But I feel like with our [inaudible 01:07:20] babies, that was not acceptable for me. Kids, people should have their own choices after they’re 20 years old. Once they go to college, they should be able to know what they want to be or not, and not our toddlers. So I’m also involved in that because I don’t want nobody getting boycott, but I want companies to respect other family members also, like their morals, their believes. It’s not everybody who believes in the same thing. But yeah. So with Amazon, it was challenging, but I stick there. I had to work my other job with that. And in between organizing, and I learned a lot myself. I learned a lot of things about the laws in Minnesota that I did not know about.
By the way, we are one of the best states to live in as a family. I feel like it’s the best state to raise families. Even though the weather makes it bad. Once you get used to that, weather is one of the best place to stay. So one of the reason this fight was so important to me and this bill was so important, I didn’t want another warehouse to move in Minnesota, make the promises that Amazon did, and not stand by it.
And other companies to adapt to the way Amazon system is. So that was my other fear. I didn’t want other warehouses to adapt to their system where they make you work like a robot and they make you move… Sometimes I used to come home… I’m not going to lie to you. I lost 40 pounds working in Amazon 90 days. Almost 65 pounds because of that back and forth. When I came home, my body ached, like when you don’t go to gym for decades and you go there one hour and you think you the superhero, and you’ll do all that lifting, but then the next day you can barely move, that’s how it felt coming from Amazon every day for the first 30 days for my body to catch up. My feet, I never stand for eight hours straight.
You get 30 minutes of break here and 30 minutes later. But walking to the break room, it’s another five, six minutes. So it’s like, by the time I get there, I have what? Less than 25 minutes left. And then the microwave, they have all these microwave that does not work. Half of them are broke. And then when you ask them, they tell you, “It’s coming, it’s coming.” By the time I get to warm mine, time is already up. They have different floors and break room, but some floors away far from the station that you are work in. So people want to come to the closest break room because it’s only common sense. You don’t want to walk 10 minutes, seven minutes to another break room when there’s one nearby.
So that one is the most where everybody comes in, they throw your food… Amazon don’t tell you, you leave your plate… So they clean every Wednesday, which I learned the hard way. My containers were thrown out a couple times because we supposed to remove it before 6:00 AM. But I’m like, we don’t even stay until 6:00, we leave at 3:30. But when we come, our stuff is gone. Imagine every day you come eat, every Wednesday, and your containers that you brought food with are gone. So I didn’t understand that. The company was like, “There’s nothing we can do.”
So a lot of people will not bring food cooked, whatever. They’ll buy from the machine, which I think that’s what they wanted, people to buy things from the machine. Their machine is cheap, a lot of drinks and stuff like that, but it’s just with the brakes, the distance, the condition of the job, the lack of the air, it is too dusty. Which, it’s a warehouse, it’s supposed to be dusty, but I was like, I feel like certain areas should be cleaned or ask people to do certain thing, give people things to clean with. They’ll give you a broom that can barely stand still. I’m like, “What would this sweep?” But give me more allergies. Why can you guys have a decent broom, something that we can swipe off.
So it’s just a working condition that it’s crazy. And now that we have this bill, I feel like anyone who moves to Minnesota, everyone come to Minnesota will have a better understanding of their rights. One of the bills that was in there that we fought for was the sick pay. Because with Amazon, even though you bring a doctor note, you still didn’t get a sick pay. They put you through all that crap to bring it, you still don’t get your sick pay. You have it, but you don’t qualify, which it still drives me insane.
Maximillian Alvarez:
That’s nuts man. And by way of rounding out, I know I can’t keep you for too long, I just wanted to end on that point. If you could say more about what it’s going to mean for warehouse workers at Amazon and beyond now that y’all have fought your asses off to get the warehouse Worker Protection Act passed, and it did. So what is that going to mean for workers at warehouses in Minnesota and what was it like for you to watch it when it got passed?
Khali Jama:
Oh, I was there. I was on my TikTok live. I wish TikTok live recorded it, but I was there early. I was the last person to leave. It was the most happiest day for me because… And I’m going to be honest, there was days we didn’t think we’ll accomplish, we didn’t think we’ll win. We had those doubts, but we pushed and pushed. And I said, “God will not give us anything that we can’t carry without it.” So we just have to fight. And we fought day and night with below zeros negatives. Those nights was not fun being out there and doing rallies. So it was the most happiest day for me because I know from now on, if I leave Amazon or any warehouse in Minnesota, anyone who comes to Minnesota, will know that working in a warehouse, you have safety and you got that sick pay.
Especially with Amazon right now, I have a lot of employees been calling me, telling me, ‘Thank you so much. We are not under that pressure of working or losing our job.” Because that was the biggest thing in Amazon, people losing their job. They feared that more than getting injured, hurting themself because they didn’t want to lose their job. Because Amazon did pay good and it was weekly pay, which I understood. So now for me, I can sleep better knowing anyone that work at Amazon is not going to be worried about getting fired or under those rates or under those condition. If they’re sick, they’re willing to go home. And they are able to go home, they’re able to get sick pay, family pay, family sick pay also. Amazon to recognize Eid day, where we could celebrate our Eid without asking them that we should be able… Because in Minnesota, we will have that day that we get, the Eid day. Schools gets off, a lot of places except warehouses. So now warehouses have better understanding with that.
Just for me, it’ll make it easier for me that I can leave knowing that people at Amazon are not under that pressure, not worrying about if they are gone less than a day or they come back and they can’t catch up with that speed, they’ll get fired. Because the app fires you You come to work the next day and you can’t get in the building. And then you look at your app, “Oh, terminated.” But you don’t know why. So they have access to the data. They have rights to know why they’re getting fired, why they’re getting rid of, explanation, which they didn’t have that before.
Amazon is going to add Somalian language as a translating, which the most people who work there are Somalians. Most of the managers are Somalians, but they don’t break down the rules and the rights. I asked for their orientation time. When people come in orientation, to have a better understanding. There was a test, when you come to the orientation, you take. If you fail that, at the end of the nine-hour shift before you leave, they give you this test. If you don’t pass that test, you can’t work there. So I felt like they should be fair with the translating and understanding of those tests, which they’re changing their ways now, one of the employee told me. So it means a lot. And it was the most happiest day for me because I felt like I accomplished something big. Something a lot of people told me I was wasting my time.
Something people said, “Well I don’t know why you’re doing this.” Because there’s days I didn’t sleep. There’s days I was up for 24 hours, trying to gather things. So it wasn’t easy. I had a lot of challenges. But with the East African community Award Center fighting with me, being there with me, the labor meeting, was her name, Eddie Murphy. And also, I forgot her name, I’m sorry. I’m trying to remember the name for the labor… So Emma. Emma and Senator Murphy, the ones who helped us to push this and fought with us and was standing with us with the rallies, came to speak out of the rallies. Because my people always feared losing jobs because I knew their situation with them back home, people depending on them, they could not afford. And majority people that were hiring was people who were literally here 30 days, 60 days. If you hear their stories you’ll go, “Wow, 40 days.”
Which I think is a good opportunity that Amazon is giving, but you shouldn’t treat people like they’re nothing. They should be able to treat people like humans, even though, in this country, they don’t know their rights, they’re doing the dirty jobs that a lot of people don’t want to do. And they’re still coming in and doing their part of work. Why can they be treated like human? And now Amazon has to treat people fair, has to be. When it comes to your health, the injury, because you read the article how the injured was higher than any warehouses. Some of those injured, they were hiding them. There was a couple of times I went to the place to find out how many times I went to the MCare. I said, “Hey, I just need a back history of how many times I’ve been here to the MCare.” And they didn’t have a record of that.
And I’m like, “Every time I come here, you scan my badge. How do you not have a record of me being here?” So now we have access to that. Before you didn’t have access to that. So with any reasons, they can’t just fire you, how easy it was before. Now people have better understanding and better education, and hopefully, educate more in those orientations, those 10 hours orientation, people just sitting there doing nothing. To be taught and give them better knowledge about the company, what the company wants. The standard is not slave work, but to work better and work smart and not to hurt yourself, and just to be fair. So it’s a lot of things that the bill’s fighting, like with the children’s free lunches. So there’s a lot of things with us warehouse workers and Minnesotans, a lot of things that will change this bill.
I don’t know if you read the whole bill, but it will do a lot for my state, which I’m very proud of. And I want to thank to everyone who was part of this bill that fought and pushed it, because there was times this fight, we got turned down a lot of time. I had to do a lot of hearings. I had to go to a lot of different hearings, speak out for the sick pay and stuff and the fairness, and just get vacation pay without using it for your sick pay, or using your vacation time just because you don’t have TOT or PTO.
Because families like me need my vacation time when my kids school close. I plan to take my kids places. So people should be able to keep those vacation time and be separated from the UPT and the unpaid time and volunteer time. So that’s going to change. So it does a lot. And I feel like with other states and cities, it will wake them up to this bill, because I feel like a lot of cities might need it also. With Amazon, they do mistreat. Because I don’t know if you looked at it the past two years, almost 20 cities and states came out protesting against Amazon. So I don’t know if you guys ever seen those article. Kansas City did a couple of walkouts. And New York, I think it was the Staten Island if I’m not wrong.
Maximillian Alvarez:
I’ve interviewed Amazon workers at Staten Island. I was there in Bessemer, Alabama when they were trying to unionize. I’ve talked to folks in California who were trying to unionize. It’s just awful the way that they treat people.
Khali Jama:
And we all connect, we all talk, we all keep in touch with Amazon and stuff. And I want to help other cities and state have a better understanding with this bill. Because I feel like a company like Amazon should not just come in and make all these false promises and not stick to it and have all these injury rates that they’re hiding from the labor. Because a lot of people don’t go and say, “Oh, my back hurts.” They’ll offer you a painkiller. So when you come from, let’s say, a different country, you here 30 days, you don’t know much. You take a painkiller, because you need that money, you go back, but you don’t know that you can fight this. You don’t know that this is not okay. Because other countries besides America, they don’t care for employees. I’m just going to speak my mind that I don’t think people care about employee workers as much as the Western country do.
I don’t know in Europe, but in America. And that changed. This change, that bill shows that, okay, our voice matters if we stick together, fight together and voice out. Because those hearings were not fine. Some of them were like 7:00 AM, some of them would say like 13:00 PM to 17:00 PM. So it was up and down. So I had to always have my schedule open. I had to always work with my schedule, which was very challenging. So some days, as a mental health, I have certain patients that I had to deal with. So just it does a lot, it changed a lot, and I hope other cities and states will look what we did and just fight together, be together. And our voice matters besides any other voice. No corporation, no billionaire or trillionaire company can bring you down if we stick together and fight it.
This will not happen if we wouldn’t fight and keep our voices more heard, made it louder. And I spoke on my social medias. I post them about what the situation Amazon, which is crazy. The thing that throws me off is a lot of people got in trouble, but Amazon never fired me, never came to me, never even questioned me. It’s like they would see me but they would not say anything. And people be like, “What do you do?” I say, “Maybe I speak my mind.” And I felt like maybe they know I know my rights that they just can come to me, because I know I’ll go step one, step two, step three. Maybe they’re testing people, I don’t know. But for me, I always spoke, my mind, spoke loudly. There was times I was like, “I wish they could fire me, because I really want to see what more power I can have against them.”
But it just never happened. But the bill changed a lot. And knowing that people in Amazon today are not fear working under those condition, knowing that they will be safe if injury or something bad happened, may God forbid, they can fight it. They can have a case. And just knowing that the state of Minnesota had our backs and supported us, and that meant the world. And that’s why it was the most happiest day because I really thought it will never come to that day. It’s been a long… I started 2022, but there was people who were in it from 2018. Like Abduragman Award Center were in there from 2018. And the reason they didn’t succeed was when the pandemic hit, a lot of people quit, a lot of people got let go. And the crazy thing, when the pandemic hit, my friend who refer me to this job, Amazon, the first time, was getting paid $40 because Amazon couldn’t have no workers.
They couldn’t hire anyone because of the COVID. A lot of people was taking all those extra monies. So people didn’t want to work. But when they start hiring, Amazon start hiring from $21 to up. Then they’ll hire you $18, but they’ll give you extra $3 for peak season. But guess what? After a couple months that I worked there, they took those $3 peak season. And I think that’s where a lot of people was like, “I can’t work $18 when I’m working overnights, 10 hours a day.” It’s like, “How is that fair?” So that’s one of the reasons most of the protests behind me started of pay. For me, the pay was not important. For me, the condition and the safety was more important. Because you can make money anywhere. Money comes and goes, but your health, there’s no price on your health.
So that was like, rate can always come next, we can always fight for rates, but right now I’m focused on the safety of our work, the safety of the stations that we work in. This chemicals that we are touching and Amazon, not letting us know there’s chemical in the warehouse, which it says it’s not supposed to be, but it’s always there. Always like, “Oh, it was an accident.” I was asking, ‘What if I would rub my hands?” And then they have gloves that does not protect you. I don’t even know the reason why we wear those gloves working there. But I will not protect you. So I can sleep better, that’s all I can say. And I know a lot of people who worked there, people who struggled, were feared to get fired because they were working with me and didn’t want Amazon to know who they were, today, tell me thank you so much. I don’t have to worry about not missing or not reaching certain rate because I’ll get fired. And that means a lot to me. So, the bill will change the state of Minnesota. Hope for good.
This week on CounterSpin: As contract negotiations went on between UPS and the Teamsters, against a backdrop of a country ever more reliant on package deliveries and the people who deliver them, the New York Times offered readers a lesson in almost-but-not-quite subtext, with a piece that included the priceless line: “By earning solid profits with a largely unionized workforce, UPS has proved that opposing unions isn’t the only path to financial success.” The tentative agreement that both the union and the company are calling a “win win win” presents a bit of a block for elite media, so deeply accustomed to calling any union action a harm, and any company acknowledgment of workers’ value a concession.
Teddy Ostrow will bring us up to speed on Teamsters and UPS. He reports on labor and economic issues, and is host and lead producer of the podcast the Upsurge.
Also on the show: Despite how it may feel, there’s no need for competition: You can be terribly worried about the devastating, gallopingeffects of climate disruption, and also be terribly confused and disturbed by the stubborn unwillingness of elected officials to react appropriately in the face of it. What are the obstacles between the global public’s dire needs, articulated wants, desperate demands—and the actual actions of so-called leaders supposedly positioned to represent and enforce those needs, wants and demands? Wouldn’t a free press in a democratic society be the place where we would see that conflict explained?
Independent media have always tried to step into the space abandoned by corporate media; the job only gets more critical. Matthew Cunningham-Cook covers a range of issues for the Lever, which has the piece we’ll be talking about: “The GOP Is Quietly Adding Climate Denial to Government Spending Bills.”
When Thomas Bradley showed up for his third shift at Laguna Cliffs Marriott Resort and Spa in Dana Point, California, on July 2 he encountered something new: a picket line. The picket was part of a wave of strikes at Los Angeles-area hotels by members of UNITE HERE Local 11. Their contracts at 62 hotels expired June 30. The hotel workers’ top demand is for pay that will allow them to secure…
On July 25, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters reached a tentative agreement with UPS just days before the current contract was set to expire on July 31. If a new deal was not reached this week, 340,000 UPS workers were prepared to hit the picket line on Aug. 1 in what would have been one of the largest strikes in US history. The contract negotiations process has been a roller coaster, filled with the twists and turns of bad offers and parties walking away from the bargaining table. What brought us to this point? What are the key issues workers have been prepared to strike over? Will the rank and file approve the latest tentative agreement, or is a strike still on the table?
In this special July 25 live panel discussion with Teamster UPSers—a collaboration between The Real News, In These Times, and The Upsurge podcast—we discuss the latest developments in the contract negotiations and what’s at stake for UPS workers and the wider labor movement.
Watch the July 25 livestream on The Real News Network YouTube channel:
Also check out Teddy Ostrow and Stephen Franklin’s breaking news story on the UPS tentative agreement, co-published by In These Timesand The Real News.
Studio Production: David Hebden, Adam Coley, Kayla Rivara Post-Production: David Hebden, Teddy Ostrow, Ruby Walsh
TRANSCRIPT
A transcript of this recording is being processed and will be made available as soon as possible.
As hundreds of thousands of workers strike across the country in a summer marked by increased labor activity, Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pennsylvania) has introduced a bill that would allow workers on strike to access government food assistance and make it easier for workers to exercise their labor rights. The Food Secure Strikers Act of 2023, introduced onThursday, would repeal a Ronald-Reagan era…
Unionizing—it’s so hot right now. Whether you’re a barista, a warehouse worker, or a package car driver, whether you work in Hollywood or higher education, the voracious corporate greed and exploitation workers across sectors are experiencing, and the wave of militant labor action shaking the US in response, shows why every worker needs to know their rights and why every workplace needs a union. Vince Quiles, lead organizer for Home Depot Workers United at Store 4112 in Philadelphia, breaks down the argument for why you and your coworkers should unionize, and what you can achieve together if you do.
Studio Production: David Hebden, Cameron Granadino Post-Production: Cameron Granadino
Transcript
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Vince Quiles:
Hey, everyone. This is Vince from The Real News Network. I’m also the lead organizer from store 4112 at Home Depot, and today we’re going to talk about why you should form a union at your job.
To start, as I’m sure you all know, we live in a capitalist system. And the way that businesses function within that system is to maximize their profit. It’s their goal at the end of the day. How do they do that? Minimize expenses. And I hate to break it to you guys, but they view you as an expense. Not me though. I think you’re beautiful. I think you’re amazing. I hope you’re having a wonderful day. And if not, I hope it gets better after this video.
But as your boss would say, “It’s not personal. It’s just business.” Well, what I’m imploring you guys to do is to reflect that same exact attitude towards them. Because in the end, generally what you want, it’s not going to be in their best interest. So I would say, “Hey, boss. It’s not personal, it’s just business. Me and my coworkers got to get together real quick.” Because at the end of the day, you can either hope that they give you what you’ve worked for and earned, or you can fight for it and take it.
To continue, the workplace is always changing. Roles are always expanding. The paychecks don’t. Doesn’t make sense. Anyway, without a union, you don’t have the ability to change that. Shoot. I know from talking to some homies at Home Depot as well as reflecting on some of my own experiences, you would go from having three coworkers in a department to somehow covering three departments by yourself. And look, this isn’t even just for the workers on this one. This is for you customers too. When you walk in and you say, “Damn, where’s everybody at? Can’t get any help.” Remember what I was saying before about maximizing profit and minimizing expenses? Another way you could look at it is they’re going to maximize your stress, minimize your experience. That’s how they get to walk away with the bag. Something else to consider on why you should organize.
You guys may have heard. Right now, UPS workers are getting ready to go on strike. And Carol Tomé and her goons poop in their pants right now. Why? Think about it, 340,000 workers getting ready to go on strike in the logistics industry. It’s going to cost them billions of dollars. You know what they call that where I come from? Power, la fuerza. That my friends is power. But it can only be garnered through organizing. So if you want to be able to have that kind of power, consider organizing.
I remember back during our organizing drive at Home Depot. So a couple words that just played in my head over and over again from somebody who I think is pretty great in this labor movement. He said, “If you don’t like what’s going on at your job, don’t quit. Organize.” It was something that really stuck with me, and for multiple reasons. You ever just feel like life is pointless? You’re running around in circles, you look at the economy, you look at your opportunities in life and just feel like they’re not there. Do you ever feel like you want to just do something that’s bigger than yourself, that you can feel good about, that when you run into an environment, you left it much better than when you first got there? It’s really what organizing is at the end of the day. I was at Home Depot. I wanted to quit. I wanted to leave. But I heard Chris say those words and they really, really stuck with me because it just hit me.
You guys, just like myself I’m sure, grew up watching superhero movies, watching Disney movies, watching movies where people did great and extraordinary and amazing things. And a lot of times in life, we get so enamored with those things because we feel we don’t have opportunities to live those values. Well, something I got to find out. I’ll be honest, it was a hard time. Definitely was a great time. Something that allows you to do that is organizing. You’re fighting for something bigger than yourself. That’s your opportunity to be Wonder Woman or Spider-Man or Batman or whoever the hell it is that you love. Luke Skywalker or whatever it might be, that’s your chance to do it. That’s your chance to fight for something bigger than yourself.
And the other thing that’s pretty freaking awesome about organizing, you see all these problems in the economy. You see how jobs are dead end, how they suck, how you got incompetent people running the place, all that stuff. Guess what can fix that? Organizing. Because in the end, organizing is this. It’s you and your coworkers getting together and taking all the best parts of yourself that you have to offer making that place a little bit better. And it doesn’t just make it better for you, makes it better for the next group of people coming along so that hopefully one day, we can actually have an economy that works for everyone.
Hope you guys enjoyed the video. I really enjoyed making it. Till next time. See you all later. Oh, before I forget, organizing is also your fundamental right As an American citizen. Google it. Check it out. Only you and your coworkers can stop workplace exploitation. All right, seriously, goodbye.
The Teamsters Union and UPS have reached a tentative agreement on a new contract to cover the 340,000 Teamsters who work for the package shipping giant. According to a statement released by the union, the new contract is “the most historic tentative agreement for workers in the history of UPS,” promising wage increases, an end to the two-tier wage system, new air conditioning in vehicles…
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vermont) introduced a bill on Tuesday to raise the federal minimum wage for the first time in 14 years and end the longest period that the wage hadn’t been increased since the minimum wage was established decades ago. The bill would raise the current federal minimum wage by nearly $10 an hour, increasing it from the current level of $7.25 to $17 an hour over the next five…
This story originally appeared in In These Times on July 25, 2023. It is shared here with permission.
The Teamsters and UPS announced Tuesday morning that they had reached a tentative deal in what had been contentious negotiations — and not a moment too soon. The Teamsters’ contract with United Parcel Service (UPS) — covering some 340,000 U.S. workers — expires in around a week.
The tentative agreement, which must be ratified by a vote of Teamsters members, includes what the union describes as “historic wage increases” for full-time and part-time UPS Teamsters; the end of a despised two-tier wage system among delivery drivers; the creation of thousands of new full-time union jobs; the targeted installation of air conditioning in new package cars (purchased after Jan. 1, 2024) and other measures to protect drivers against the heat; limitations on forced overtime and Martin Luther King Jr. Day as a paid holiday, among other measures.
“We demanded the best contract in the history of UPS, and we got it,” Teamsters General President Sean M. O’Brien said in a news release following the announcement of the deal. “UPS has put $30 billion in new money on the table as a direct result of these negotiations. We’ve changed the game, battling it out day and night to make sure our members won an agreement that pays strong wages, rewards their labor and doesn’t require a single concession.”
“We’ve changed the game, battling it out day and night to make sure our members won an agreement that pays strong wages, rewards their labor, and doesn’t require a single concession.”
Teamsters General President Sean O’Brien
UPS also confirmed the tentative deal Tuesday morning. “Together we reached a win-win-win agreement on the issues that are important to Teamsters leadership, our employees and to UPS and our customers,” Carol Tomé, UPS’ chief executive officer, said in a news release posted on the company’s website. “This agreement continues to reward UPS’ full- and part-time employees with industry-leading pay and benefits while retaining the flexibility we need to stay competitive, serve our customers and keep our business strong.”
Representatives from the Teamsters’ 176 UPS locals will meet on July 31 to review and may then recommend the tentative agreement to their locals, which rank-and-file union members would then vote on in the coming weeks, according to the news release. Members will also vote on their region and local-specific supplementals, which must be approved before the national contract can go into effect. Union membership voting will begin on August 3 and conclude on August 22.
At the time this article was published, it was largely unclear how the larger membership views the tentative agreement; members will receive a list of contract changes, and locals will conduct member meetings to go over them.
The tentative deal on the five-year collective bargaining agreement comes on the first day both parties returned to the bargaining table after negotiations broke down on July 5.
Several of the union’s key demands had been addressed prior to Tuesday’s announcement. The specific language of the tentative agreement has not yet been released publicly, but according to the union, UPS had already agreed to removing a second tier of lower wages for drivers working Tuesday to Saturday and agreed to begin air conditioning and cooling its vast fleet.
“Together we reached a win-win-win agreement on the issues that are important to Teamsters leadership, our employees and to UPS and our customers.”
UPS CEO Carol Tomé
But several items remained on the bargaining table, including surrounding the wages of part-time workers. According to the Teamsters’ news release, full-time and part-time workers’ wages would immediately hike by $2.75 per hour, and workers would see a total of $7.50 in general wage increases over the course of the five-year contract.
Existing part-time workers would immediately see their wages raised to no less than $21 per hour, which would be the new base rate for part-time package handlers and would increase to $23 per hour by the contract’s end, according to the union. Part-timers who already earn more in wages from the company’s location-specific market rate adjustments would receive general wage increases, and long-time part-time workers would also receive longevity, or “catch-up,” wage increases up to $1.50 per hour (in addition to the new hourly raises).
According to the Teamsters news release, “General wage increases for part-time workers will be double the amount obtained in the previous UPS Teamsters contract — and existing part-time workers will receive a 48% average total wage increase over the next five years.”
In addition to the general wage increase, full-time drivers would also see their average top rate moved to $49 per hour from $42, and all second-tier delivery drivers would be reclassified as regular package car drivers and placed into seniority.
A spokesperson for UPS was not able to immediately confirm the accuracy of the details in the Teamsters news release.
The Teamsters have reached a new agreement with UPS that the union is touting as the “most historic” deal in the history of the company, likely avoiding a 340,000-worker strike that was slated to start August 1. The union and the company announced the deal on Tuesday, just hours after the parties had returned to the bargaining table following a collapse in negotiations earlier this month.
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-New York) delivered a fiery speech to television actors and writers on the picket line in New York City as the labor movement’s “hot labor summer” heats up with 160,000 television and film workers on strike. “Your fight right here is what’s going to bust this thing wide open,” Ocasio-Cortez said into a megaphone, to cheers from the strikers. “We are in a hot labor…
We are less than two weeks away from what could be the second largest single-employer strike in US history. As of this recording, contract negotiations between United Parcel Services (UPS) and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters have reportedly “collapsed”—and the clock is ticking until the current contract expires on July 31. If a deal is not reached and a strike occurs, what will it look like for 340,000 Teamster UPSers to walk off the job? What are the key issues that workers are prepared to strike over? And what can we all do to support them, whether a strike occurs or not? In this episode, we continue our coverage of the historic UPS contract fight by talking to Rikki Schreiner, a shop steward for Teamsters Local 638 in Minnesota who has worked for UPS since 1999, and Amber Mathwig, a part-time UPS warehouse worker and member of Teamsters Local 638.
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Hey, guys. This is your host, Maximillian Alvarez here.
Joy Marie Mann:
And this is Joy Marie Mann.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And we wanted to record this quick little update for you guys before we get onto today’s full length episode which is a real banger. It’s going to be our final update on the potential UPS strike that we are going to publish here on the Working People feed before the current contract between UPS and the Teamsters expires at the end of this month.
But we really wanted to hop on, Joy Marie and myself, to ask you guys before we get onto today’s episode to please take a moment and help us spread the word and help us raise as much funds as we possibly can for a very important fundraiser that Joy Marie is working on for residents living in and around East Palestine.
As you guys know, here on the show, we have spoken with a number of residents living on the Ohio side and the Pennsylvania side, people who have been affected directly by the catastrophic Norfolk Southern train derailment on February 3rd and the, quote-unquote, controlled release of vinyl chloride among other chemicals that were contained on that Norfolk Southern train.
You guys have heard firsthand both on this podcast and of the livestream that we did at The Real News, and if you listen to Joy Marie’s essential YouTube channel, you have also heard her speak with many residents living in the area as well. Please go check out her channel, support the work that she does. She has been really, truly committed to these folks. She refuses to give up on them and I’m truly, truly grateful to her for the important work that she’s doing, including trying to raise money and get supplies for an upcoming resource drop.
So, actually on that note, Joy Marie, hop in here and let people know a little bit more about yourself, how you got involved in this struggle for justice for the people living in and around East Palestine. And what’s the deal with this current fundraiser and what can folks do to help?
Joy Marie Mann:
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. You’re one of I think three of us who actually talk about East Palestine. There’s myself, yourself and one other channel at this point. So, it’s important that people with a platform get the word out about this. So I’m very appreciative.
So, the events are going to take place this Friday and Saturday. Friday, we are going to a place called Darlington, PA. It’s only seven miles from East Palestine and they are severely affected as well. And a lot of them are trying to rehome but they do not have the means. They also are using bottled water to bathe, to drink, to cook.
So, it’s not just an East Palestine thing. So a lot of people need help regardless. I’m being told … I’ve spoken with people up to 45 miles from the derailment. So when you think about it in layman’s terms, there’s not going to be some kind of barrier that is going to stop air and water from coming into other places. So, all of that is traveling. So, many, many, many people are affected.
So typically, every July, we do actions in DC with March for Medicare for All. This time, when we were planning, I’m just so over doing DC. I’m so over it.
Maximillian Alvarez:
I can’t blame you there.
Joy Marie Mann:
Yeah. I mean to me, it’s like if you want to do electoral politics, go for it. That’s your thing. And if you want to vote, absolutely do it. But what has it gotten us and what has it gotten these people who’s local, state and federal government is still making them suffer six months later despite the fact that they are no short of begging daily for their help.
So, at this point, I’m like, “No.” And as soon as the time came in April when we were deciding where to do the locations and such, I’m like, “FDC, we are going to East Palestine.” So, thankfully, I have some comrades who are going to be coming from all over the country on their own dime to volunteer with me to help get this mutual aid out. So, what first got me started is my BFF Jenna who lives in Pittsburgh. She’s the one who first notified me about all of this going on. She’s not very far at all.
And then I became kind of obsessed with it. Honestly from the health care perspective, the environmental perspective and the class war perspective. These people’s median income is $27,000 a year for a family. These are poor folk and they are being discarded. And we know if this happened in a nice rich area, this would be cleaned up ASAP.
Also, one of the things that inspired me to go help them was because their government and Norfolk Southern has been so generous that they have tried to placate them with $10 coupons for local businesses, carnivals, Easter egg hunts, all of this uncontaminated land on top of it. But also now, they have voted unanimously to put amphitheater in East Palestine right by all the garbage that’s in the air. This is what they’re focusing on.
And they also had July 4th fireworks which in fact gave a lot of the residents PTSD. So there’s a huge mental health aspect that’s going on as well. It’s very traumatic. There are people still living in one room, hotel rooms, with family. There are children who have not been to their house in over five months. They weren’t allowed to bring anything with them. Everything is contaminated. People’s homes that have been in their family for generations are now going to be demolished. There’s pretty much strife on every single level possible.
So, one of the reasons we’re going is to discuss 1881a and demand that. And essentially, there is a section in the Obamacare Social Security Act that states that any kind of environmental disaster would immediately give free full health care. Is this something that is applicable? Absolutely. To be quite honest, it was applicable even during COVID. So, this is applicable not just East Palestine but Flint and Missouri and all of the other places who are suffering.
And so we are going to be there to demand that. We are going to be demanding that Biden actually sign this declaration of disaster that’s been on his desk for over two weeks now. We’re going to be demanding free testing for vinyl chloride because right now, the people are paying $700 out of pocket for each of those tests and then still have been waiting since April for the results.
We are going to demand weekly water drop-offs because there is no supply of water. They are still bathing in it, as I said, and drinking it and they’re waiting for people to donate and bring it in because there just is none. So, we’re also demanding $2,000 stimulus every single month including back pay. We are demanding home testing for every single person who wants to reside where they were living or go back home.
A lot of the things that are also huge problems is that say one of my dear friends in East Palestine, Zuza, she lives with her son in a one-room hotel room. Now, a lot of people think, “Well, Norfolk Southern is paying for that. Not exactly. So, everyone has to pay for everything on their own and then pray with their fingers crossed that they get reimbursed for it. And a lot of times, they don’t because the people who get priority are people who are BFFs with the politicians and Norfolk Southern and who don’t make public noise.
So, the facade that Pete Buttigieg is putting on two days ago and saying, “We need Congress help,” it’s absolutely not true. Definitely look into it. This is something that Biden could do on his own immediately. He has these things called executive orders that everyone likes to pretend don’t exist.
So, there’s so many elements to this. And it’s a shame that all of us are coming from across the country to bring them these necessary items. But quite frankly, no one else has been. So, we just felt obligated to step up on a humanitarian level to just help these people who are legit begging. They’re being left to die, quite frankly. And they need help.
So, we did have a goal of $12,000 and we have met that which is incredible. I will put a caveat on that though and state that there are multiple events that day. So not all of that money is going towards the event and my other volunteers are doing in East Palestine. Also, I have been very open with giving my phone number to all the residents and I have been getting a lot of texts from people personally asking if we can also provide besides pallets of water and grocery, air filters, baby diapers, wipes, shoes for kids.
A lot of these people were displaced in February. So, these kids are wearing winter pajamas, they’re wearing long pants, things like that because all they had was what they were wearing. So, I’ve had a lot of requests for personal needs for things and I really don’t want to tell anyone no at all for any reason.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Well, again, I’m just so, so grateful to you and to everyone that you’re working with for not forgetting about these folks, right? Because you and I were talking about this before we started recording, if you have a heart in your chest, you cannot talk to any of these folks and not stay committed to their struggle and not keep doing whatever we can to make sure other people don’t forget about them.
And you are out there doing the work and I really, really appreciate it. I sure as hell know that the folks living there appreciate it. And I really, really want to stress to folks listening before we wrap up, please do whatever you can to help us spread the word about this. Please donate whatever you can.
Again, we are pushing this to the front of this week’s full-length episode because there is a time-sensitivity here. As Joy Marie said, this trip to East Palestine is coming up at the end of this week. So, please don’t hesitate, as soon as you hear this, donate what you can, share it to as many folks as you can and let’s try to get as much help as we can to the folks living in and around East Palestine. Please do not forget about them.
And Joy Marie, just really quick, I wanted to just ask, tell our listeners where they can go to donate and what the best and easiest way to support you all is.
Joy Marie Mann:
Sure. So, the easiest way to donate would be going to M number 4, M number 4, A-L-L dot org, so M4M4all.org. There is a donation link on there. You could also go to GiveSendGo and type in M4M4ALL East Palestine. And you could also go to my Twitter @SavageJoyMarie1 where I have a pin post of how you can donate. And I will just say $5 is a case of water for a family. So, I know it’s trite but literally anything helps.
(singing)
Amber Mathwig:
My name is Amber Mathwig. I work at a UPS hub in Minnesota. I load trucks in the morning before they can head out and do their routes every day. And I have been a proud member of Local 638 for the last nine months.
Rikki Schreiner:
My name is Rikki Schreiner. I have been employed at a UPS facility since September of 1999. Yes, I am old. I originally started working there because of the Earn and Learn program. And then I got what was called the Golden Handcuffs. And it’s hard to give up a full-time job making that kind of money right off the bat. That’s all I’m saying.
Maximillian Alvarez:
All right, welcome everyone to another episode of Working People, a podcast about the lives, jobs, dreams and struggles of the working class today. Brought to you in partnership within In These Times magazine and The Real News Network, produced by Jules Taylor and made possible by the support of listeners like you.
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My name is Maximillian Alvarez. And I am very, very excited to be on the call with Amber and Rikki today. You guys know, we are in the midst of an intense and intensifying contract fight between the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and the nearly 350,000 members working at UPS across the United States and United Parcel Service.
And we are recording this episode of the podcast on Monday, July 10th. It’s going to come out middle of the month of July. And this is going to be our last big UPS-focused podcast before the deadline of when the current contract expires at the end of the month.
As you guys know from our previous episodes, we recently published a great interview that I got to do with the great Sean Orr, shop steward and UPS’er down in Chicago. You guys heard the on-the-ground episode that we did from Boston a couple months ago where Sean O’Brien and the IBT leadership were holding a rally to get members amped up about the current contract fight.
And of course, I’m sure everyone listening to this also listens to our friends and comrades over at the Upsurge Podcast. They’ve been doing great work covering this contract fight more extensively than anyone, putting it in context, showing how this contract fight connects to the last major strike at UPS in 1997, what it means for the labor movement for the teamsters and for all of us.
So we’ve been doing our best to cover as many bases for you all as we can. And we are going to do more over at The Real News especially as we get closer to the end of the month when the current contract is set to expire. People are currently expecting that if a deal is not reached between UPS and the Teamsters, as Teamsters have been saying, picket lines will go up on August 1st. So, that is where things currently stand now.
Last update that we heard from last week is that negotiations, quote-unquote, collapsed between the Teamsters and UPS. Currently, both sides are pointing fingers at each other and saying that they’re responsible for the talks collapsing. So, you guys can do with that what you will.
Again, I think we can read between the lines and figure out who’s responsible for the contract talks collapsing. But we will again try to include as many up-to-date links in the show notes for you guys so that you can read up on this as well.
And we will be posting updates throughout the month from our social media on Facebook, Twitter, so on and so forth. But yeah, like I said, as far as the podcast is concerned, this is our last big pre-strike episode. And I could not be more grateful to Amber and Rikki for making time to hop on the show and sort of talk us through what’s going on right now and where things stand from their vantage points.
And before we get there though, I really, really want to get listeners more acquainted with you both. Amber, of course, we’ve had the honor of having on the show before with a great episode that we did in the past about working class folks in the military. If you haven’t listened to that episode, you absolutely should. I think it’s one of the best ones that we’ve done. Really informative. Really, really great conversation. Amber, as always, was excellent on that podcast.
But now, Amber is working at UPS, right? And I know got a lot of thoughts about the current contract fight. So, enough from me, enough table setting. I want to dig into all of this stuff with you guys. But I guess first, since we can’t do a full sort of get to dig into your backstory conversation, I was wondering if we could still do a bit of a shortened version of the standard working people conversation we have on the show.
And if we could go around the table and each of you could just introduce yourselves a little bit more to our listeners or reintroduce yourself to our listeners and tell us specifically how you came to work at UPS, what kind of work you do there and what that work looks like and why you’ve stayed at UPS for all this time.
Amber Mathwig:
Long, convoluted backstory around how I ended up at UPS which was not intentional at any point. But as Max already mentioned, I was in the military. After I got out, I went back to school. I ended up supporting veterans at a university that shall not be named. If you’re actually curious about it, you can google me and find out more about how I epically got fired after standing up for students and workers’ rights, ACAB, all of that.
And took a little bit of a break. And as I was starting to run out of funds, the pandemic was starting and my middle brother was dying. So, I came back to Minnesota. And with all of that going on, I ended up making the decision to move back here permanently and kind of [inaudible 00:23:20], not really so much job hopping but being just dissatisfied with a lot of the options, temporarily was back in restaurants, left that for reasons.
And then, I really wanted to get into the construction field and I had the opportunity to go through this class. It was really great. So this was like 2022 last year. Last summer, I was getting a lot of help from one of the local unions to get into a construction job and was told, “Hey, go apply at this place.”
Well, I get there and I’m filling out my application which is the exact same as the resume that they already had by the way, except for one little thing. They wanted to know what community and volunteer work I did. And I hesitated because I know that saying I’m on the board of an anti-war organization, that I do mutual aid, that I support indigenous resistance does not bode well.
But one of the things that I am known for is always being honest about who I am and never covering up any of that. Needless to say, I did not get that job and suddenly, the union rep has no time for me as far as trying to help me find a job.
So I ended up in a couple of non-union places. The first one I quit the very first morning during training because the trainer was just so excited to talk about diversity. But their diversity was that they had hired somebody with a swastika tattooed on his forehead in the past and they were able to keep him five months before-
Maximillian Alvarez:
Jesus.
Amber Mathwig:
… he said something inappropriate. There was a lot going on there. I was like, yeah. So then I-
Maximillian Alvarez:
Listeners can’t see our faces right now, but you can feel them.
Amber Mathwig:
You can probably figure out what our faces look like. So then I got another job at another non-union place. And it was okay. I knew I couldn’t stay there. There was a lot of -isms and phobias going on right from the beginning. But I was like, “Let me get the experience. Let me just keep trying to get in somewhere.”
Well, I once again made the mistake, not the mistake, bringing up, “Hey, what are the training expectations for me? When can I expect to learn things related to my job that are not just assigning me and the other woman in the department to go clean up after you all, all the time?”
Because it’s not like I come in with zero experience. I have a lot of experience, just not professional experience. And so it’s like, yeah, five business days later, all of a sudden, there’s these made-up scenarios about how I don’t receive feedback, how I’m a horrible employee and I’m out of a job again.
So, take a couple of weeks off, realized it was peak season, right before the holidays, decided to apply at UPS. And one thing I really love about UPS is it is exactly what most labor jobs should be. You fill out an application. They make sure that you meet the basic requirements and you essentially show up to start working because you’re either going to decide that you want to be there or not because that is not an easy job.
You do a trial interview by going to work and it’s like anything beyond that for a lot of labor jobs I think like, “What are you doing? Why are you interviewing?” Anyways, that’s probably a whole another thing.
So I was going to stay there through peak season. They upped our pay for the market rate adjustment through peak season. I was making really good money. I was exhausted every day. I was cussing up a storm more than I’m used to which is a lot.
But I was finding that I was starting to enjoy the work. And even though I started to look other places for either administrative jobs or back in construction, when I did the math, when I did the time, when I did the compensation, as long as UPS was still paying this market rate adjustment, it made more sense for me to stay there. So, when I was offered a permanent position in the middle of January of 2023, I absolutely stayed on. Plus, everybody loves me because I am a perfectionist. My trucks are neat all the time. I show up 99% of the time on time. I help out everybody.
How did I start saying it? I’m a good worker, I’m a bad employee because I know my rights, I know everything that’s going on. And I’ve stayed there because it’s given me a lot of flexibility. I’ve had some of the military-related issues that I’ve been working through that like preloading because I could come home and nap afterwards before going on something else. It just worked out really well for me.
And there’s been this weird healing aspect as well because I’m so used to … I’ve been out of the military longer than I was in at this point in my life. But I still held onto I can’t ever let myself be seen as weak. I can never ask a man for help.
Now, because the guys are so chill about it, I’ll just turn to one of the younger ones or I’ll just turn to somebody I know is super strong and I’ll be like, “Dude, I’m tired.” And they will come and they will move the heavy box for me and they will just turn on and go about their way. Not once have I ever been treated like shit because I need help at the end of a shift. They know that I’m older and they know that I am not as strong as them. That is just a thing.
And if you can tell from my personality, my personality right now needs a union behind me because I speak up about everything. Whether it is just like the way assignments have been doled out for the day, whether it’s about seeing somebody be disrespected by a supervisor or another person on the line. And to be honest, my supervisor has at least one strike against him for being borderline inappropriate which is how he ended up being on our line. And I wasn’t going to allow that to happen.
I’m like, “I don’t know what they’re doing putting him over here. I was new so they didn’t know better at the time.” But every single day, not as much anymore thankfully because he’s starting to chill out, but every single day, there was an -ism or a phobia that had to be addressed in some way, shape or form. And in the past, I’m used to losing my job because of that.
Now, I know that the union’s got my back because we need to be a zero-tolerance workplace. We want to lift people up. And we want everyone to feel valued and respected when they are at work.
And I’m going to wrap that up by saying we feel valued and respected with our market rate adjustment. I think a lot of us do. The pay that we’re getting right now. The fact that UPS thinks that they can just drop it back down to this literal poverty wage and maintain workers and have the same output that’s going on right now. I’ve gone and done local sort in the evening so I normally work in the mornings. It’s pretty comfortable. It gets a little hot and humid in there.
But I’ve gone and work local sort the past few weeks in the evenings and I’m getting paid time and a half. And I’m like, “There are things right now on local sort that I don’t want to do for time and a half just because it is wretched, wretched, sweaty, heavy labor, check.”
Rikki Schreiner:
Originally, I came to UPS because of the Earn and Learn program which is where they will contribute money to your college education. And I had gone post-secondary. And as most of you probably know, college education is not cheap. And I was looking at going to med school and that is really not cheap.
So, I figured I could do my major enrolls through UPS and I started working there. I was waitressing part-time and going to college. And I did that for a few years. And then the opportunity to go full-time came up and I would be making a better wage working full-time hours.
And I realized that the dream of going to medical school was maybe out of my reach. So, I went full-time at UPS. And I started in 1999 so I’ve been there for a very long time. I’m a proud union member. I’m a union steward out of my facility. And honestly, it’s one of the most, I’m trying to get the word here, it’s probably one of the most meaningful things I’ve ever done in my life.
I could not express more being able to help people and educating people about what their rights are and being involved in the union. I wish more people would stand up and do the same. I want them to realize how enlightening it really is, how powerful you really feel. So that’s how I ended up full-time. And I stayed there because of the health insurance because I do make good money.
I’m a single female. I have my own house. Well, I’m engaged now. But I have my own house. I live alone. I can pay my own bills and I don’t have to rely on anybody else to do that. And that is kind of important for me.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Yeah. I think …
Rikki Schreiner:
Well, it’s important for everybody I realized. A blanket statement.
Maximillian Alvarez:
No, but it really puts into stark relief how few of us get that to the point that we start just believing that we’re not worthy of it. And it’s like, “No, you work, you deserve to keep a roof over your head. You deserve to have a living wage to be able to provide for yourself.” And if you got a family to do that as well, we deserve so much more than what most workers in this economy get.
And as I can already hear from you both as I’ve heard from other UPS’ers like yourselves, that’s why being part of the union is so important. That’s what it really teaches you especially if you’ve never had that experience about the difference that it makes when you are part of that union, when you know your rights on the workplace, when you have each other’s backs.
I’m comparing what I’ve heard from folks at union warehouses to the work that I did as a temp at a non-union warehouse. And it’s just night and day. I mean every day, we would go in expecting that it was a 50/50 chance we wouldn’t come back tomorrow. They would work us to the bone for 12, 13, 14 hours and then we’d be sitting there or standing there on the floor dripping in sweat at the end of a day at a hot box warehouse in Southern California.
And the managers would walk down the line and point to the people they wanted to come back the next day. And that’s why they stocked over 80% of their warehouse with temps because we could get paid a lot less, we could be fired at the drop of a hat, didn’t have to deal with any pesky things like unions or union workers who believe that they deserve dignity on the job.
It’s such an important aspect to everything that I think working people go through on a day-to-day basis in this country and beyond to sort of understand why we should expect to be able to provide for ourselves and to be paid a living wage and to settle for nothing less.
Rikki Schreiner:
This is not a foreign concept. One of my favorite comments about, especially from my fellow coworkers, is about how this generation is so lazy and I call bullshit. So this generation, they grew up with their parents struggling. Both parents had worked, if they had both parents. They sacrificed working eight to 12 to 13-hour shifts just to support a family, if they got to spend any time with their family at all.
These kids didn’t grow up with the kind of family that the generation before grew up with where one parent could work, the other parent could stay home and raise a family and they had dinner together, they spent time together. These kids did not have that. And they’re not willing to sell their souls to a corporation to live like their parents did. And the hope that someday maybe they could retire with dignity with what’s left of their bodies.
But this is not a foreign concept. This was what our country was built off, the backs of laborers, the working class. This is not a foreign concept.
Maximillian Alvarez:
I wanted to ask Rikki if you could say a little more about what your week-to-week looks like both as a worker but as a steward. What do you hear from your fellow workers? What are I suppose the responsibilities that a steward in your position deals with? What sorts of concerns are you hearing from your members? And I guess how does that play into the current contract fight?
Rikki Schreiner:
Probably one of my biggest is supervisors working. We have a policy where if supervisors … Supervisors can work but they have to exhaust all union options. We have a list that they’re supposed to call down. Everybody who wants to double can sign up for it. They’re supposed to call everybody on that list before they are allowed to work.
And it’s not something that gets followed regularly. So we have problems with grievances for supervisors who work. Harassment, unfortunately it should not be an issue in any workplace, but we are no exception. I do get calls a lot people wanting to talk to. Yeah, I’ve noticed this as a post-pandemic thing. I’ve had a lot of coworkers that I think are dealing with a lot of anxiety coming from the pandemic.
We had a lot of people who went through tough times. We were working a lot of hours not seeing our families, going through relationship problems, going through mental health problems. So, I get a lot of phone calls about FMLA and how to get that underway.
One of the underlying things we keep saying about being a union steward is a lot of what we have to do is not only we are the steward but we are kind of a therapist. We’re a therapist. We’re a lawyer. We wore a lot of things and a lot of hats that we have to wear. And on a regular basis, I could honestly say I have to deal with that at least once a night. So if I’m not there, I get phone calls. All hours a day, you are always on call as a union steward.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And this is something that we’ve talked about a bit on the show before, but it really, really bears repeating. I mean the work that stewards yourself do and members like Amber do, active members, people who really believe in the union, believe in their members and who really understand that ultimately what a union means is workers having each other’s back at work and what that means to have one another’s back and to show up for each other. That’s just such unsung and such necessary work.
And I just really, really wanted to just shout that out because what you do on a week-to-week basis matters a whole hell of a lot. I interviewed the kinds of members who would be nowhere if they didn’t have someone to answer that phone at night when they’re going through a crisis or when they’re experiencing something horrific at work and don’t know who else to turn to.
So, just wanted to, A, lift that up and thank you for that work that you do. And really just encourage folks out there to do that work themselves and to support those who are doing it. And as we say all the time, not every union’s perfect, not every local’s perfect. If you’re not getting the kind of support that you need, then be part of the change. Work with your coworkers to make the union what you need it to be because that is ultimately what needs to happen.
And I want to turn that into a question about the current contract fight because you guys, as I said in the intro, you were in the midst of a very intense period that has been simmering and boiling for basically the past year, if not since the past contract. I know a lot of the anger and frustration has been rightfully simmering since the last time we had a contract negotiation.
So, before we talk about where things stand now and what folks should be looking ahead to for the rest of the month, I wanted to ask you if we could talk a bit about the current contract fight as you both have experienced it over the past months or the past year. I guess have you felt the Sean O’Brien energy on the shop floor?
I guess how have you and your coworkers been talking about the contract? What do you think listeners need to know about what the real central issues are and maybe what they’re not necessarily hearing about in mainstream media coverage?
Rikki Schreiner:
As far as the energy, I think especially with this last little kerfuffle we’ll call it where everybody walked away from the table or whoever walked away from the table, it doesn’t matter. But I think this has reenergized a lot of people at work.
For the most part, everybody’s been following it. It’s great that we’re using more social media. We have an app now to follow. So, the membership now is more involved than they were in previous contract negotiations. But I don’t think it really started to maybe hit until the week four of the July.
And I think people are really starting to realize, “Oh no, you know what? This is a real thing. This is going to happen.” We’ve been preparing for it but we’ve kind of all … I think in the back of your mind, you want to hope for the best but plan for the worst.
Amber Mathwig:
Agree, agree, agree.
Rikki Schreiner:
Yeah. Actually, a part of our app is a calculator on how to save money for the strike. So, they were messing around like be prepared. And I think you’re definitely feeling the energy. I’m honestly surprised at how many people that I work with.
We have really an older crowd there. I’ve been there for a long time, but I know people who’ve been there for 30, 40 years. And they are getting kind of like, “You know what? Screw this. Let’s strike. If this is where UPS is going to take us, then I’m ready.” And it’s a building. You’re definitely feeling more energy in these past couple weeks than we have through the rest of the negotiations.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And is it just a general like, “Screw this, the company’s disrespecting us?” Because it’s been kind of a back and forth, I think the news over the past two weeks that the tier system was going to be eliminated, that was kind of a bombshell not just for this current contract fight. But I mean so many of the strikes that we’ve seen in recent years, so many of the labor disputes that I cover on this show week to week, a lot of them center around two-tier, three-tier, four-tier sort of employment systems, equal pay for equal work.
This is an issue from GM plants to John Deere plants to UPS warehouses to higher education where you’ve got tenured professors, non-tenured adjuncts, all that kind of stuff. So, it’s a real big issue. And so, I guess I just wanted to ask really quickly, Rikki, if there are any particular things that people are sinking into or if it’s just a general, “Things are going in the wrong direction and this is our chance to fight?”
Rikki Schreiner:
It’s a general. I think there’s a lot of pent-up frustrations from our workplace anyway just because things have … There have been some hostilities in the workplace over this past year just because it’s the contract negotiations. So, management’s a little bit tense than usual. So, it’s definitely spilling out into the workplace.
So, I think there’s kind of just this general, “You know what? We’re tired of being treated this way. We deserve more.” I probably sound like a broken record because I know I’ve said this before. I cannot express enough what we went through during the pandemic. And I realize it’s not over but during the height of the pandemic, we were working six days a week. We worked every holiday with the exception of Labor Day. We were working 50 to 60-hour days. We were exhausted. We were exhausted and UPS made record profits off of that.
And yeah, don’t get me wrong, we were all very grateful to be employed but a lot of people and their families suffered, their marriages suffered. Not only that, we put our health on the line. We put the health of our families on the line to keep UPS afloat.
Amber Mathwig:
And there was no market rate adjustment during the beginning of the pandemic so they were still getting paid those fucking poverty wages that Hoffa Jr. agreed to.
Rikki Schreiner:
We lost coworkers during that period of time. For them to not take this into consideration is no wonder people are so pissed off. Some people where we work with sacrifice to everything. And this is why you get like, “This is all you can do for us?” Well, I can say that. Fuck you. It’s an insult. It’s being slapped in the face after you have put your family through hell. “Sorry. Here’s some chump change. Thanks for your effort.”
Maximillian Alvarez:
Yeah, man. I mean just the disdain, the callousness that employers revealed during COVID. I mean it’s like, I don’t know, it really does something to you. I mean again, I have a book of interviews with workers that I recorded during the first year of COVID. And I guess every episode of this show for the past three years has technically been a COVID-related episode.
And I think you can really hear in people’s voices, even if they don’t say it explicitly, that it does something to you to hear from your employer that they don’t care if you live or die. That I think in the back of our minds before COVID, we all kind of knew it but we suppress that. We try to tell ourselves that maybe that’s not the case. But then COVID really forced the government and employers to put their cards on the table. It’s like, “How much do you value human life?” And we got our answer in a lot of respects.
And I think that it really changes your relationship to your job. It makes you sit and think about if I die tomorrow and the old adage when it’s all said and done, the only people who are going to remember you stayed late to work are your kids. I mean, just all those sacrifices that we make for employers who literally could not care less if we disappeared tomorrow. I think hell, yeah, that’s really infused a lot of the labor militancy that we’re seeing in recent years and absolutely should. And workers should assert our humanity and our dignity and not be willing to compromise that and not accept subhuman treatment from our employers or subhuman wages.
And I wanted to just ask one more question on that, Rikki. I apologize for sticking on you for so long. But Amber, we’re going to toss you in a sec. But I wanted to ask if you could just say a little bit about that market rate adjustment thing because I feel like that hasn’t been talked about as much in media coverage. So, I just want to pause on that for a second for anyone listening who is like, “Wait, what’s that? And how does that relate to the current contract fight?”
Rikki Schreiner:
The market rate, originally it started out … We actually started out before that as we had a weekly bonus for employees, part-time employees only. If you showed up every day, you got a, I can’t remember what it was, it was like $112 bonus. I’m probably wrong on the numbers there. But they received a bonus for that.
And we started running into problems with that because not everybody was getting it. And since it’s not contractual, it’s very hard to agree with that. It’s very hard to fight for that. And they weren’t exactly honest when they hired people because a lot of people didn’t understand that this was temporary.
I had a lot of people coming up to me and like, “You know what? They stopped doing this.” Well, they have the right to. And that upset a lot of people that a lot of people quit when they dropped that because they were not told that this was not a permanent thing.
So, the answer to that was [inaudible 00:49:46]. And of course it’s different in every building and every area. Amber might be able to answer this part. I think we’re at $26 an hour right now.
Amber Mathwig:
Yeah. And we’re at 24 and our facilities are probably only 12 miles apart. Yeah.
Rikki Schreiner:
Mine’s higher than yours. And once again, I think originally I started out at $28. They dropped it down to $26. Once again, people were not informed of this. During the orientation, this was not explained to people that this is just a temporary wage, we can drop it at any time.
And once again, since this is not a contractual thing, we don’t have much control over this. If it was, if they made a MRA, they would have to extend it for the length of that contract. But since it’s not contractual, they can drop it, bring it in, do whatever they want with it. It doesn’t matter. We have no control over it.
Amber Mathwig:
But it’s wild to hear that UPS has said, “We don’t have any more money on the table to give you.” And by “give you,” they do mean us, the part-time workers because almost everything else is settled right now. It is coming down to these wages. They’re saying, “We can’t pay you what we’ve already been paying you for the last six months.”
And also, they are forcing drivers into overtime, double time, triple time every single day of the week. So somehow, they have money to pay drivers almost up to $80, $90, $100 an hour but they don’t have money for the package car loaders, the local sorters, the people who make the things go from facility to facility, truck to truck. And just … Everyone say, “Hi, Bebe.”
And just the fact that this is rooted in historical sexism within the industry because package car drivers and loaders, inside workers used to get paid the same up until 1982. I remember that because that’s the year that I was bored. And so at that point, they started getting different wages. I’m going to finish this up and then I’m going to put the dog out.
And note, 1982 is when more women were joining the workforce, more women were coming in to start doing labor jobs. And then there’s also this continuous rumor about how we have to wait nine months to get insurance, otherwise women will just come in while they’re pregnant to get insurance to have a baby. And I’m like, “You all, let’s stop that. Okay?” Because anybody can come in to get insurance for the length of a pregnancy at that point.
But it is rooted in sexism in the fact that of the 340,000 Teamsters that are getting ready to go on this contract negotiation, an imminent strike, 55% of us are inside workers. And of that 55%, we have an incredibly high non-male, non-white representation. And I’m going to go ahead and say it, too, a lot of queer people. So, it is rooted in sexism and it is continuing to affect us 41 years later.
Rikki Schreiner:
I’m going to add onto that. The $5 billion stock buyback. But all of a sudden, they have no money.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And this is like the John Deere strike from a year and a half ago is the workers there represented by the UAW, they voted down two tentative agreements because John Deere was like, “Oh, we can’t give you more money.” It’s like, “Motherfucker, you just had your most profitable year in existence during a pandemic. What do you mean you don’t have money? You guys made billions of dollars.”
And UPS, yeah, you guys both said it. During COVID, just like Amazon, like eCommerce exploded because we were all trying to socially distance. A lot more people were ordering stuff to their homes. How do you guys think all of that was getting to your door? It was because of people like Amber and Rikki. And that was just a boon to UPS’s business model. And now here they are after raking in record profits saying like, “Oh, we don’t have enough money to pay these part-timers what they’re worth or yada, yada yada.”
Instead what they’re doing is they’re going on these little PR campaigns. And there was one last week that was really interesting to me where after contract negotiations fell apart, immediately you started seeing UPS’s main social media accounts share these weird videos about how happy their part-timers are and just how great of a place UPS is to work if you want to work part-time. And I’m like, “Huh.” I’m not going to say there aren’t any happy part-timers or that any worker is unhappy all of the time.”
We’re complex human beings. A lot of us love what we do. We love our coworkers but we don’t love getting treated like. We don’t love getting shit from our managers and we would like to get paid what we’re worth.
So, it just seemed very interesting timing that UPS was rolling out this kind of the human shield of part-timers who love their job to make them seem kinder in the public eye. But Amber, I wanted to ask what you thought of that little PR campaign and also what it’s been like for you nine months jumping into UPS in the midst of all of this as, like you said, a worker in the warehouse whom we don’t normally hear from all that often.
Amber Mathwig:
So, just a reminder, my background is in women’s and gender studies. Obviously with the military, I’ve done a lot of focus on race, class, sexuality, gender, all of that. And it’s kind of astounding to me. I finally watch the Instagram video and I have questions about if that individual knew what the video was going to be used for because she’s not really talking about it specifically. She’s saying, “I was in this really shitty situation and now I have stability,” which UPS can offer.
But it just seemed a little bit different than the one that caused me to scream and screenshot and message Rikki immediately with capital letters “the fucking audacity,” which was when you log into our employee web portal, it immediately pops up at the top of the page, How a Part-Timer Supports his Family at UPS. That’s the headline.
When you click through, the very first thing is, “Oh, he’s a full-time real estate agent. He just didn’t have insurance.” So, between a sick child and a sick spouse, they were racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars. So let’s back up a little bit. Why do we have hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical debt in the United States back up to the public campaign? Why are people homeless in the United States? Because of greedy corporations, because of generational trauma both micro and macro levels that people refuse to deal with in the United States. And so, they’re building this campaign off of issues that shouldn’t even exist in the first place.
Okay. So you asked how it’s been jumping into UPS. It was a steep learning curve. It really was. And again, I had not intended to stay there permanently. So the first 30 days, it was just keep my mouth shut, don’t get fired. And then I was like, “Oh crap, I’m actually going to stay here. I have to start learning everything.”
I love my older friends because one of my older friends, he was immediately like, “You’re going to join Teamsters for Democratic Union. I campaigned for them in the ’70s.” And I was like, “Absolutely. If you’re telling me that I’m going to need to be part of that group, that’s what I’m going to do.”
I enthusiastically signed my union membership paper at orientation, but then I had to learn the lay of the land basically which is that we, specifically part-timers, a lot of people feel neglected, forgotten. There is a lot of turnover. We have a good significant number of people that have been there for several years. But I would say half of the shift was turning over a lot especially before the MRA was extended till April and then was just kind of indefinitely extended because they knew what was going to happen if they cut it.
And so, we’ve actually had a lot of stability the last few months. And I like to sit back and watch and learn and try to figure out relationships and patterns and everything that’s going on which is very frustrating for me sometimes. And so, learning the history about the contract five years ago, hearing about what Rikki said is just how overworked and unappreciated, literally I think our business agent said five people within our local died from COVID directly. And I don’t think that even counts affected family members or friends, anything beyond that.
And it’s really tough to hear that and then to still experience a lot of apathy going on because there’s just not enough. There’s not enough business agents. There’s not enough stewards. There’s not enough knowledge out there. As part-timers, we’re all coming in for a shift, but I come in an hour before everybody else to do some work.
Some people are finishing up in their sections at all these different times. So it’s really difficult to build cohesion around, “Hey, let’s do this.” And I know like TDU keeps putting out like, “Do parking lot meetings. Do this. Do that.” And it’s like there’s still difficulty because we have people going straight to second jobs, going home to take care of the kids.
People do part-time work for very valid reasons. And that’s something like I was so excited the day that I got people to stay for voting on the strike authorization. I was just jumping up and down wanting to hug all of them. I think I got three people to stay and I got four people to commit to go into the union hall. And I know they did. I know they did.
But I’m going to wrap this up in that on our line, we just have an interesting group of folks on our line. And so, we are always talking about the contract. We are always making sure that the new people know what is in the contract around grievances, the supervisors working, what it means to be on time, all of those different things. We don’t let anyone drop through.
We fight as a team against the -isms and phobias that I mentioned earlier. And we really support each other through the day and help out. And the other day, one of the contracts break down the morning of the 5th. And so, I happened to be on break and I was laying on the belt. The stop belt, it was not moving, stretching out my back. UPS doesn’t care about safety, but you will definitely get yelled at and written up if you step on a moving belt.
And so I logged into social media and I think the local had shared it. And one of my friends that works at one of the North Carolina facilities had shared the Teamsters’ post from two hours earlier. And I just screamed and I jumped up and I’m like … People are coming back to the line. And I polled everybody on the line real quick. And they all knew what I was talking about. So I was like, “Okay.” And I looked at my watch, I’m like, “I’ve got three minutes before break is over.”
So I just start running around the facility stopping and I’m trying to identify at least one person from each work section. Okay, I can tell this person. And it started off as first person was like, “Oh crap.” You could see on their face that they were feeling the financial hit right away. And then I ran to the next line and I’ve talked to those folks a lot before. So they were like, “Okay, what does this mean?” And so I went through a 30-second spiel of, “This is what I think is going to be next and I’ll get back with more information.” Then I go to the last line and immediately, the person responds with, “Yeah, we absolutely need to get paid more. Do you know how hard this shit is?”
And then break was over and I had to go back to my line. But generally, I feel everybody felt the same that Rikki mentioned earlier that the contract negotiations seemed to be going so positively and really getting a lot of wins especially in the non-economic areas that I was like, “Okay, strike is maybe going to happen but maybe they’ll actually just give in, especially since they’ve already been paying most of us well above the contract rate for the last several months.” But to see that, that is when I knew it was like, “Oh crap.” And that shook people up.
And there’s a lot of follow up to do because even some people were … The last guy I talked to, he was like, “Well, are there any non-union folks in our shift?” And I honestly don’t know but I do feel like there is a few. And he’s like, “Why would anybody not be part of the union?” And I’m like, “Let’s have a history lesson next week.”
Maximillian Alvarez:
What I would give to have a camera in that warehouse and just a reality show.
Amber Mathwig:
Oh, there’s a camera. We just don’t have access to it.
Maximillian Alvarez:
All right. Yeah, not the creepy Orwellian cameras that UPS has everywhere. But if we could turn Amber and Rikki’s days on the floor into a reality show, I would watch the shit out of that. Sorry, Rikki, what were you about to say?
Rikki Schreiner:
I was going to add on to the part about the people not really knowing. And I’ve tried to push this through our local right now since this is coming after and hopefully everything in the contract is ratified, but trying to do contract literacy classes for people. Everybody should know what the contract means. It shouldn’t just be the stewards, it should be everybody, Zoom meetings, whatever. But anybody who wants to attend, they need to understand what the contract means for them. And so that [inaudible 01:05:48].
Amber Mathwig:
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.
Rikki Schreiner:
Yeah. I emailed our president about it and he seemed really enthusiastic about it, so fingers crossed.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Yeah. That’s incredible. I mean that’s super important. And I want us to pick up on that in a second. And I can’t keep you both for much longer. I know that you got busy days and I got to let you go soon. So, we are going to finish with like, okay, looking ahead, anyone who’s listening to this, if they’re a member, what do they need to know? If they’re folks who want to stand in solidarity with you all, what should we be looking out for and how can we do that? How can we show support for you all?
So, we’re going to end there in a second. But you both have brought up an important topic. And if you’re comfortable with it, I just wanted to get your thoughts on this really quick because we’re talking about the labor movement here. We’re talking about the Teamsters. We’re talking about work that is traditionally identified with this sort of archetype of the blue-collar dude. This is a very male dominated industry in a union that has such a macho-drenched reputation.
And I think there are parts of that that people get excited about. I mean, I get the allure. Yeah, Teamsters are badass. There’s something about that kind of old archetypal image that is attractive to people for different reasons. But at the same time, I feel like even amongst more progressive leaning folks who I know are deeply supportive of you all, I think it’s easy for people to unquestionably indulge in that, indulge in the hypermasculine theatrics of the union fight with UPS.
And even that leads us to maybe not fully see what this diverse workforce of around 350,000 people go through on a day-to-day basis. So, I guess what I’m asking is as two women working at UPS, part of the union, very active in the union, I guess has that sort of tracked for you as the coverage of this contract fight has been mounting?
I just feel like I personally hear from very few women let alone from part-timers folks in, I mean we tend to hear from folks in the package cars. Even now with the sort of contract negotiations falling apart, I mean there’s a lot of chest beating to the whole thing. I guess I just wanted to get your take on that and if you feel like we are collectively missing an important part of the picture here.
Rikki Schreiner:
I think this is probably one of Amber and I’s favorite subjects actually. It’s true. Let’s be honest. The Teamsters do have a reputation of being a bunch of old white guys that that’s not a secret. I’m excited about this new leadership. I think we’re going to start seeing a lot of bigger changes. I think we’re going to see a lot of women. We’re going to see a lot of people from different cultural backgrounds. It’s going to expand because it has to be able to. And if you’re going to represent the workforce, you have to look like the workforce.
People’s voices need to be heard and I think we’re going to see more of that with this leadership.
Amber Mathwig:
I agree with Rikki on that. I especially am already seeing it in our local joint council. Is that the appropriate term? Kind of driven by our local union that we’re part of in that we had a table at Pride for the first time. And that I asked for the local bylaws and the very first thing I saw was he, him and brothers all throughout it.
So before I even read it, I responded to our local president and was like, “So, I see one thing that needs a change in there.” And he responded affirmatively. And he’s all for understanding that a lot of things have just continuously been dropped as not a priority. But why would you not prioritize something like that? Technically, the bylaws don’t apply to me at all because I’m not referenced in them.
At the local level, I feel good. I don’t know how I feel about the international level right now just because of there is so much media and there are so many people talking that do not seem to fully represent what I see as our workforce here in Southern Twin Cities areas where I’m at. And it’s also interesting to me that I know we had briefly talked about what we would like to see in the future.
In addition to some of that, I would really love to see the union fight for language justice in the work centers because right now, UPS claims to have some requirement to speak and fully understand English. And I’m sorry, if you know anything about the Twin Cities, one of your best workforces, especially the ones who are reliable for showing up at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning and being sober, English is not going to be their primary language.
And so, the Department of Labor has already said or NLRB, whoever actually has it written out, that all training and feedback should be provided in the language that the person understands best. And it’s that simple. And so, I saw the struggle during peak when we had a lot of part-timers, seasonal come on.
I have seen the struggle recently in the local sort in the evening where it’s like this person is highly capable. They’re motivated, they’re here. They’re figuring it out. They could do better if they were being trained in their primary language and not these complicated, and I’m sorry, even Midwesterners have weird accents sometimes too and it makes things weird.
And so, there’s just so much that could be done to make our workforce stronger. And I do have hope for, I really do. Just learning about the recent history of UPS, seeing it within our local, knowing that other people like Rikki, I forced Rikki to be my friend right off the bat when I met her. I’m like, “We’re going to be friends.” Because I needed to know that somebody similar to me existed at another facility. That’s what it was. And I know that there’s a lot of us.
Rikki Schreiner:
We’ve seen it, once again, in a local level where our locals are working with other workers’ rights groups and other community centers and helping people off the small link community. We work with the Awood Center where we have a partnership with them where I’m trying to establish with some other workers’ rights groups. We’re branching out and getting to know our community which is what we need to be doing across the country.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Yeah. I mean, you’re talking about Twin Cities here. I mean, some of the most exciting labor action is going on there. And you have this incredible diverse workforce. I mean, we just had Qali Jama on the show who was one of the Amazon warehouse workers, Somali-American, really kind of achieving this historic win with the new warehouse build that is going to go into effect this year.
And that was one of their big concerns too, right? It’s like you got so many hardworking folks speaking different languages. If you’re not acknowledging that this is the reality of your workforce and not making materials and training available in the languages of your workers, then what the hell are we doing here?
And I guess that’s actually a nice way to segue to the final turn here because like I said, I know I got to let you both go. But I want to talk about looking ahead, again, we’re going to post updates for folks on social media. We’re going to keep coverage going over at The Real News Network. But as far as the podcast’s concerned, we’re recording this on July 10th. It’s going to come out next week. So, we’re going to have about a week and a half leading up to the contract expiring after this episode comes out.
So, I just wanted to ask you both, how does that warehouse worker protection bill, is that going to an impact you guys over there in the coming years, but also for folks who have their eyes focused on the strike, what can you tell us about what you’re I suppose expecting, what sort of scenarios could play out between the UPS and Teamsters if they do hammer out a tentative agreement, if they return to the table and work out a deal before the end of the month or if they don’t?
How are you guys preparing and what should UPS’ers around the country be prepared for? And also folks who are out there standing in solidarity with you all, what can we do to support our fellow workers over at UPS?
Amber Mathwig:
So, I’ve heard that some companies are promising or sending out emails that they’re not going to switch carriers, that they’re sticking with UPS, that they support the strike. I don’t know if that applies to those meal plan companies. And I’m just asking myself, this is not representative of the union’s opinion, please cancel your meal plans because we don’t want to come back to them in the warehouses after 5, 6, 7 days, two weeks and deal with them. And that goes-
Maximillian Alvarez:
After sitting in the August heat?
Amber Mathwig:
Yeah. Well, okay, they are never temperature-controlled no matter what you think. They are never temperature controlled. And I get a little weirded out about some of them. But be aware of … I think a lot of it is propaganda but there may be a couple companies shifting over to FedEx or some other shipper. Just be aware of it.
If your shipper all of a sudden changes for something, please write to them and tell them, “No, I’m canceling now because you’re not sticking with UPS, you’re not sticking with workers.” UPS will tell you, “Oh, FedEx will absorb this.” FedEx can’t absorb 20 million packages overnight. We ship a significant number of United States Postal Service packages every day under a specific part of our contract even. It is in the contract what we can ship and what we can’t.
Earlier, you’re talking about support. One of the most enthusiastic supporters that I’ve had just come in contact with is an elderly woman with a almost 50-year adult child with Down syndrome. And this is from my small hometown and I don’t always expect to receive positive support out there, but she was just so enthusiastic. She was like, “UPS was like my lifesaving line during the pandemic so that we could stay safe, so that my daughter could stay safe and did all these other things. You all do absolutely whatever the heck it is you need to do.”
And I want people to continue to remember that as we go forward. Join folks out on the picket lines. Please cancel those meal plans. I know which companies they are. And just be prepared. Just be okay with being inconvenience for a couple of weeks so that we can all win. Because when we win this labor contract, when we get what we need and want, it is just going to be so much momentum for the labor force overall in the United States and beyond, check.
Rikki Schreiner:
I just want to say about the Qali. I love her. Seriously, she is an amazing human being. I’ve met her multiple times. I’ve been to protests with her. I’ll say this. Amazon exploits young single parents, people new to this country. So they instilled that they, A, don’t know their rights and, B, too scared to stand up for their rights.
And Amazon here in Twin Cities, [inaudible 01:19:22] Shakopee is learning the lesson that that is not the case. Amazing. Working with the Awood Center is just amazing. As far as the warehouse worker bill, I mean a lot of it really does affect Amazon more than us.
I’m kind of going to get off on a tangent here with the Amazon thing. But they had a thing called Time on Task. Basically, they had a quota they had to meet every day, but Amazon is not required to tell them what that quota was. So at the end of the day, they would tell you whether or not you made it and you can’t see it so you don’t know if they’re pulling numbers out of their ass. You don’t know where this is coming from. And they can use it as a reason to get rid of you.
I mean, I don’t know if you know this but they have 150% turnover rate which is obscene. So they were abusing that. And that is part of the warehouse worker bill. You have to be told what is expected of you every day.
Another part of it is for injuries and this could apply to us. If you have a higher than average percentage rate of injuries in your area or in your building I guess I should say, OSHA can come in and investigate unprompted which is excellent because otherwise you have to make calls. They can come in unprompted which is another problem. I think you’re two-thirds more likely to get injured in an Amazon warehouse in Minnesota than you are any other warehouse.
And it was actually really amazing to work with. We had a celebration party just a few weeks back with the Awood Center and we had Emma Greenman there and Erin Murphy, the senator and representative that helped push the bills through, amazing Women. And we’re all very excited about it. And you hear some of these stories and it’s heart-wrenching just how people get treated.
And UPS and Amazon are not too different in that front. They’ve made it very clear that we don’t really matter to them. We are just numbers. And so hopefully, it’s a small step but it’s a step in the right direction.
Now, as far as supporting us, best thing you could possibly do, organize your own workplace. Start talking to your coworkers. If you work at Amazon, give me a phone call. I work for the organizing committee. Seriously, talk to your coworkers. Learn your labor laws. What rights do you have? If you’re going to talk to the boss, if you could consider protected activity, look it up.
You know what? Talk to members of labor unions. I said learn your rights. You want to support us, organize your own work area. Support the workers’ rights movement.
This year, per usual, workers’ attempts to draw attention to these conditions were largely drowned out by hundreds of fawning PR press releases thinly disguised as articles about how “consumers” could “take advantage” of “amazing deals” offered by Amazon on Prime Day. Many of the same outlets publishing these puff pieces, and generating sizable revenue through so-called “click-through” arrangements with Amazon and other retailers in the process, have a glaring conflict of interest when reporting on Prime Day, which makes their silence regarding labor actions on or around Prime Day that much more conspicuous and noteworthy.
Many of the same outlets publishing these puff pieces, and generating sizable revenue through so-called “click through” arrangements with Amazon and other retailers in the process, have a glaring conflict of interest when reporting on “Prime Day,” which makes their silence regarding labor actions on or around “Prime Day” that much more conspicuous and noteworthy.
The most egregious offender this year was none other than the paper of record, The New York Times, which published a torrent of ads for Amazon posing as articles via its “Wirecutter” vertical in the week leading up to Prime Day. Times readers were fed sober and critical reportage such as “The Best Prime Day 2023 Deals That Are Still Kicking,” “Why Wirecutter Parents and Kids Love Magna-Tiles,” “The 50 Best Prime Day Tech Deals,” “A MacBook Air, Open to Reveal a Colorful Desktop,” “This MacBook Air Is $200 Off for Prime Day, the Lowest Price We’ve Seen,” “Target Circle Week 2023: Best Prime Day Deals From Target,” “Best Amazon Prime Day Deals of 2023,” “The Best Amazon Prime Day Deals of 2023,” “The 29 Best Prime Day Laptop and Computer Deals,” “The 12 Best Prime Day Vacuum Deals: Dyson, Shark, and Roomba,” “The 19 Best Prime Day Headphone and Earbud Deals,” “The 30 Best Prime Day Gaming Deals: Video Games, Headsets, and More,” and so on. Dozens of such articles can be found on their webpage.
Nowhere in its output did The New York Times cover the dozens of labor actions targeting Prime Day that same week, nor has the outlet published any investigative reporting detailing Amazon’s labor abuse since 2021.
According to The New York Times2022 investor report, the company’s “Wirecutter” product “generates affiliate referral revenue (revenue generated by offering direct links to merchants in exchange for a portion of the sale price upon completion of a transaction) in addition to advertising and subscription revenue.”
The Times is parlaying its journalistic credibility, developed over decades, into what is effectively an advertising vertical—a fact the casual reader could easily miss given the passing disclosure they offer, which lets readers know in 11-point font that “when you buy through our links, we may earn a commission.”
The average reader’s interaction with Amazon’s corporate brand isn’t critical, or even neutral: It’s sexy headlines about the “best deals” the company can provide you, the “consumer.”
But the Times, of course, is not alone. ABC News, NBC News, CBS News, and CNN all ran dozens of humiliating Amazon commercials about what “deals” consumers could get without doing any reporting on this week’s pickets and walkouts—let alone the labor abuses and low wages that spurred them.
CBS News also has a click-through vertical called “CBS Essentials,” which ran countless “articles” promoting Prime Day. One has to squint to see the disclaimer that CBS “may receive commissions from some links to products in this page.” CNN engages in a similarly confusing and venal practice. The outlet’s “CNN Underscored” vertical spams its readers with dozens of veiled Amazon ads boosting click-through revenue. Admittedly a bit more apparent than that of CBS or The New York Times, the outlet’s disclaimer reads “when you buy through links on our site, we may earn a commission.” CNN also did not report on any Prime Day-related pickets, or other labor actions for that matter.
NPR got in on the act, too, publishing a promo piece for Prime Day titled “Are Amazon Prime Day Deals Worth It? 5 Things to Know.” The nonprofit news outlet did have the decency to add a disclaimer at the end of the article noting that “Amazon is among NPR’s financial supporters.” However (you may be noticing a theme here), NPR also did not do any reporting on Prime Day-related pickets or other labor actions.
This isn’t to say these outlets never report on Amazon labor actions, or report critically on any Amazon labor abuses. But such reporting is exceedingly rare compared to the nonstop, barely disclosed Amazon ads that comprise the vast bulk of their “articles” on the retail giant. The average reader’s interaction with Amazon’s corporate brand isn’t critical, or even neutral: It’s sexy headlines about the “best deals” the company can provide you, the “consumer.” Meanwhile, union activists and labor organizers have to pry, crawl, and practically beg for the occasional write-up about a picket line or allegations of worker abuses and low wages.
The widespread, institutionalized conflict of interest created by a business model that relies on retail ad revenue to prop up TV, print, and online news outlets isn’t the sole reason for the media’s overwhelmingly uncritical Amazon reporting, but it is a major contributing factor that makes labor organizers’ jobs that much more difficult.
There is no shortage of abuses and scandals to cover, either. The Department of Justice is currently investigating whether or not Amazon “engaged in a fraudulent scheme designed to hide the true number of injuries” that take place in its warehouse facilities. Under the leadership of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) is investigating safety conditions at Amazon warehouses. A report conducted by the Strategic Organizing Center—which is supported by unions and affiliated with the Service Employees International Union, the Communications Workers of America, and the United Farmworkers of America— found that, in 2022, “Amazon’s injury rate was 70 percent higher than the rate at non-Amazon warehouses.” Workers have spoken out about egregious abuses, from constant surveillance, breakneck workloads, and unreasonable quotas that break workers down physically and mentally, even notoriously forcing some to urinate in bottles, to vicious union-busting on the part of the company. Amazon has captured the hopes of a labor movement struggling to organize the behemoth company, which is the second-largest private employer in the US and has the power to set standards across industries.
One rare example of a Prime Day labor action this week that was actually being covered by local media—in this case, Fox 2 Detroit—was itself interrupted by a bizarre Prime Day promo in the middle of the segment. I’m not joking (watch the video below from 0:38-1:38):
Like Death from the Final Destination films, Prime Day promos somehow manage to seek out and find their way into all Amazon-related reporting published on or around July 14, even reports that appear initially to be sympathetic to labor and the plight of Amazon workers.
The widespread, institutionalized conflict of interest created by a business model that relies on retail ad revenue to prop up TV, print, and online news outlets isn’t the sole reason for the media’s overwhelmingly uncritical Amazon reporting, but it is a major contributing factor that makes labor organizers’ jobs that much more difficult. After all, how can one build public sympathy for struggling workers—both at home and overseas—when these workers’ low wages and long hours are behind the “amazing deals” every corporate media outlet extols this time of year? Prime Day is simply presented as an exciting event every year, with no human face or human costs; you just click a button and super cheap cool stuff arrives magically at your doorstep. Asking too many questions about how your stuff got there, or what pressures, environmental costs, and tolls on the body this process entails, is simply too messy—and harmful to media companies’ bottom line—to report.
With the possibility of 340,000 Teamsters going on strike next month at United Parcel Service (UPS) seeming more and more likely, the world will be looking to Louisville, Kentucky, where UPS headquarters and UPS Worldport, the largest sorting and logistics facility in America, are located. With over 25,000 employees, 10,000 of whom are members of Teamsters Local 89, UPS is by far the city’s largest employer. If the Teamsters and UPS do not reach an agreement by July 31, when the current contract is set to expire, the picket line outside these facilities could be the largest the city has seen in decades. At a local rally held on July 18, Brian Hamm, vice president of Local 89, spoke about the impact a strike at UPS would have on the city: “If we go on strike, Louisville will shut down,” he said.
Consistent with the national trend, Louisville’s union membership rates have been on a steady decline since the 1980s, with some fluctuations in recent years. In 1989, 14.8% of workers in Kentucky were union members; after falling to nearly 8% during the Great Recession, and falling again to its lowest point on record in 2021 (7.2%), union density numbers have see-sawed between 10% and 12% over the past decade. But at one point, Louisville was well known for being a hotbed of union activity, even earning the nickname “Strike City” due to the militancy of many unions in the city and their demonstrated willingness to strike for better wages and conditions. Over the past two years, though, there have been indications that Louisville is working to earn its nickname back: union activity has been growing steadily, with workers at Sysco striking this spring and unionization efforts led by workers from the public defender’s office, Half Price Books, the Courier Journal newsroom, and Trader Joe’s all taking place within the past year.
At one point, Louisville was well known for being a hotbed of union activity, even earning the nickname “Strike City.”
Amid this resurgence in labor organizing, Louisville’s coffee scene has become a perhaps-unexpected hotbed of union activity. Facing store closures and other forms of alleged union busting, workers at local coffee shop chain Heine Brothers won a hard-fought union battle in March of this year, signing a new contract with the chain and securing higher wages and more paid time off for their baristas. Moreover, workers at seven Louisville area Starbucks locations have also voted to unionize since 2022. These rank-and-file struggles at other cafes across the city helped inspire another local Louisville chain, Sunergos, to unionize their five locations in January.
“Louisville has so many coffee shops—there’s like a coffee shop on every corner in Louisville—and I think they all need to be in a union if they are not already,” Sunergos barista Clove Harrington told TRNN. “The Heine Brothers thing was very exciting, because they kind of helped us have the courage to also do that… Starbucks kind of started this national movement of baristas organizing. I’ve been a barista since 2017 and I’ve thought about unions before, but I definitely didn’t think that this is something that baristas can do and should do. But Starbucks kind of proved that it is, that baristas also deserve a living wage and deserve rights… So, to see Starbucks do it, and then to see Heine Brothers follow suit… it gave us the jumpstart to do the same thing.”
While workers at Heine Brothers were able to secure a contract, none of the local Starbucks unions, nor the Sunergos Union, have done so yet. So on July 17, these unions joined together and held a one-day strike outside their respective locations in the city. While a cross-chain strike might seem unusual, workers in both unions thought it was important to show their commitment to each other. “The reason we went to [Sunergos] was just to help show them solidarity, because, for one thing, we are all baristas, so we are all trying to fight for the same things no matter what company we are working for,” said Sean Sluder, a Starbucks worker who joined the picket line. “And then, beyond that, we are all workers, so anything that one of us gets done, or any battle that one of us wins, is going to help the other ones, because now we can say, ‘Well, they did it here,’ especially [when it comes to] smaller [businesses] Starbucks is a huge corporation, but if smaller businesses can cover the expenses, then there is no reason that Starbucks can’t!”
The strikes coincided with Starbucks Workers United’s nationwide bus tour. Workers and organizers have been traveling to various Starbucks locations to raise awareness about Starbucks’ response to the historic wave of unionization efforts at stores around the country, which Sen. Bernie Sanders called “the most aggressive and illegal union-busting campaign in the modern history of our country.” The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) has issued over 93 complaints against the company on charges ranging from retaliation against union organizers to illegally refusing to bargain with the chapters.
“The Heine Brothers thing was very exciting, because they kind of helped us have the courage to also do that… Starbucks kind of started this national movement of baristas organizing.”
Sunergos also faces allegations of union busting; so far, the Sunergos Workers Union has filed two unfair labor practice charges against their employer with the NLRB. One of the allegations centers around the May firing of Ashley Ray, a manager at Sunergos’ Preston location, where the union organizing effort at the company initially began. “Upper management’s attitude toward Preston kind of changed [after the union announcement],” Ray told TRNN. “They were constantly pointing out things that people were doing wrong at Preston that they weren’t actually doing wrong, and I would always stand up for them. Like my boss would say, ‘This person is rude, this person has a bad attitude,’ and I would say, ‘I’ve never seen that from them, can you give an example?’ and he would have a hard time being specific about it.”
The company claimed Ray’s firing was related to an alleged violation of the employee discount policy. However, Ray believes it was their reluctance to discipline union organizers that led to their termination. “There were two people that my boss asked me to discipline, and basically the reason he gave was hospitality. It was really just misunderstandings [in] both situations, so I kept pushing back on disciplining them,” said Ray. “The next time I met with him [after pushing back], he gave me a discipline form for the store being dirty in certain areas and people clocking in five minutes late. So then I felt like I had to go along with it.”
In addition to Ray’s firing, the union has also filed a ULP charge against Sunergos for refusal to engage in good-faith bargaining. “I’m on the bargaining committee at Sunergos, and at one of the negotiation sessions for our contract the owners told us point blank that they are not going to agree to anything until the end… if you know how negotiation works, you just go through one article at a time, and once you agree to something, you move it to the side and say, ‘We can move on from that,” said Harrington. “[Their actions made] it extremely hard to negotiate in general, because you don’t know what you’ve agreed to so far (so how do you know what progress you are making?)” Moreover, according to Harrington, “it doesn’t feel like they take us seriously and value the work that we are putting in for this cause, and for each other, and for everyone who works at Sunergos.”
Kelsey Combs, another Sunergos barista, says that the company’s refusal to bargain in good faith led to the strike action on July 17. “We won our election back in January, so it is… seven months later and the company still hasn’t come back with one meaningful counter-proposal for us—after… four or five [bargaining] sessions now,” said Combs. “We are all getting a little antsy and fed up that the company just doesn’t seem to want to take us seriously and negotiate with us, so, yeah, we thought the opportunity was right to strike.”
“The reason we went to [Sunergos] was just to help show them solidarity, because, for one thing, we are all baristas, so we are all trying to fight for the same things no matter what company we are working for,” said Sean Sluder, a Starbucks worker who joined the picket line.
Sunergos baristas are especially eager to get a contract given how low their pay is. “Our wages are incredibly low, they are the lowest in the city, in Louisville, that we know of. Our hourly wage is only $8.25 for starting pay,” said Combs. Workers are supposed to make up for these low wages through tips; however, as Combs points out, and as anyone who has counted on tips as a key part of their income can attest, this is a precarious and unpredictable way for workers to achieve financial stability. “It’s so hard to budget that and tips fluctuate so much—it really depends on things like the weather and what days you work and what shift you work and… whether you’re in a good mood or not that day.”
Dealing with these kinds of hardships every day has led these coffee shop workers to not only find cross-chain solidarity with their counterparts around the city, but solidarity with all workers who are fighting for better working conditions. While their numbers may be much smaller than UPS Teamsters, they believe they are in the same fight. “I’m really excited to see UPS go on strike, too, because workers are just fed up,” said Harrington. “We want to say, ‘You cannot exploit our labor anymore. Your business does not exist without us who do the work day to day.”.
“I just think, as time has gone on, people have just realized that we’re getting screwed, everybody, it’s not just us,” said Sluder. “Maybe at first people saw the baristas and thought, ‘Oh, they’re so entitled,’ or whatever, but then you go to work every day and your boss screws you over… [and] the owner can buy a new vacation home every year and you’re stuck trying to pay your electric bill. I think people are just tired of it.”
