{"id":1542469,"date":"2024-03-08T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-03-08T08:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecreativeindependent.com\/people\/musician-and-visual-artist-devendra-banhart-on-getting-out-of-the-way-of-yourself"},"modified":"2024-03-08T08:00:00","modified_gmt":"2024-03-08T08:00:00","slug":"musician-and-visual-artist-devendra-banhart-on-getting-out-of-the-way-of-yourself","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/2024\/03\/08\/musician-and-visual-artist-devendra-banhart-on-getting-out-of-the-way-of-yourself\/","title":{"rendered":"Musician and visual artist Devendra Banhart on getting out of the way of yourself"},"content":{"rendered":"

Many people who make creative work cite the importance of getting out of your own way. Have you developed healthy ways to do this over time?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Like the journey of every artist, your best work is when you get out of the way.<\/span> Developing healthy ways to do this is a huge challenge because unfortunately, but also for our benefit, the most unhealthy ways are fucking awesome. The fast track. They\u2019re seductive because they\u2019re effective. There\u2019s stuff you can do that\u2019s going to bite you in the ass later on, but gets you out of the way fast. It\u2019s a subjective journey, whatever that unhealthy or healthy thing is. Through the journey, hopefully you become grateful for getting to a place where you find healthy ways. It\u2019s still quite mysterious to me. How do I get out of the way?<\/span><\/p>\n\n

Intention is important. Why are you making this piece? At the same time, I\u2019m so into being carried away by pure mystery. Sometimes you know what kind of song it is, you know what you want to say. You even know how you want it to sound, and can hear and see it. The rest of it is making that manifest. That\u2019s one version. Then the other is, I\u2019m going to fumble in the dark until I find the switch.<\/p>\n\n

So often there is fear at play, too.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Fear, of course, can fully freeze us, assault and petrify us. Fear can also be where all the good stuff is.<\/span> The most vulnerable stuff is the most beautiful to share. That\u2019s our challenge. People can sense that. For me, it\u2019s an attitude that is helpful because it\u2019ll never go away. I\u2019ll never not be afraid. For the rest of my life, I\u2019m going to be afraid. Can I look at it as this psychopomp, this person that can take me over to a place where I\u2019m moving towards something like healing. Or it can be something that keeps me from ever considering expanding. I\u2019ll never write another good song if I don\u2019t let fear guide me. It\u2019s weird. We don\u2019t hear it. We hear not to be guided by fear, but it can be an incredible guide.<\/span><\/p>\n\n

You\u2019ve always struck me as unafraid.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

It\u2019s been a lifetime of getting to a place where I don\u2019t think my work is the most important in the world and I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the most valueless, unimportant work either. You stop getting in that zone. Your work is meant to be shared. Beyond that, it\u2019s not up to you anymore. That\u2019s what I mean by engine of propulsion. I\u2019m not making work for the byproducts of having made that work, which could be tremendous rejection and horrible reviews, which I\u2019ve received. Or it could be accolades and amazing praise. Anyone\u2019s complementary expression towards you is wonderful. But really it\u2019s them, you facilitated a beautiful feeling in them. They\u2019re just expressing that. It\u2019s not actually about you.<\/p>\n\n

It\u2019s much harder to deal with \u2018this is shit, man, you should give up\u2019. That hurts so bad. They haven\u2019t worked out their shit and are dumping theirs on you in a weird way. Most of the time we\u2019re cruel because people have been cruel to us as opposed to trying to avoid being cruel because it feels so bad.<\/p>\n\n

It\u2019s not that the rejection didn\u2019t mean anything or didn\u2019t hurt. I joke around and say, \u201cYeah, I just annoyed people until somebody finally let me play a show.\u201d There\u2019s some truth to that. I actually sat in front of the venue on the Seine in Paris with a guitar. I was just playing, not loud. I didn\u2019t know what else to do. I didn\u2019t have an in. I didn\u2019t know anybody on a label.<\/p>\n\n

I was like, well, this is a venue. I\u2019m going to sit nearby, dangling my feet off the Seine, and I\u2019m going to play my songs. Eventually the booker actually did walk by me and go, \u201cYou know what? The opening band canceled. Do you want to just play?\u201d I had to do that for days, sit there for eight hours every day. Not even imagining that could happen.<\/p>\n\n

That was my only strategy to somehow get in. The rejection came when I started to get addresses for labels. Then I\u2019d go to a record store, look at the back of the label and start sending CDs and cassettes. No one\u2019s into it, it doesn\u2019t feel good. I\u2019ve felt that with the art world too, going around with my portfolio, my paintings. No, not interested. I don\u2019t keep going because I think oh, my shit\u2019s so good. You just don\u2019t see it. You just have some sense that there is a space where you fit.<\/span><\/p>\n\n

You describe your visual and music practices as separate portals. What sets them apart?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Songwriting is heavy for me. I\u2019m working out that fear. What am I afraid of sharing? What am I afraid of singing? What is the secret that I\u2019m keeping even to myself? Those are roadmaps, guiding lights.<\/span> What\u2019s terrifying? What\u2019s uncomfortable? What a heavy trip to lay on someone. I don\u2019t want to do that. How would I sing this in a way that isn\u2019t some heavy trip? I have a therapist and a spiritual practice. That\u2019s where you lay things out. They\u2019re going to come out in your art without a doubt. Even if you\u2019re the person that paints one dot in the center of the canvas, somehow you\u2019re working something out.<\/p>\n\n

I\u2019m working with words and melodies. I know the material is fear-based. Fear-based, trauma-based, pain-based and of course, love-based. We get to a place where we can share it. It\u2019s an emotional exchange. Humor really helps, but it\u2019s still a serious process. After a day of writing, recording, or working out the tune, I go into the painting studio to balance it out. I start drawing dicks and tits. Big things and big snot coming out of a nose or a foot stepping on a dick, doing that for hours. The whole day I\u2019m cracking up. Pure adolescence, just letting go. That\u2019s how it\u2019s been with the last few records. I\u2019m taking it so seriously that I need an outlet that\u2019s more playful. That\u2019s shifting now. I want to approach at least some of a new body of songs with that playfulness. Maybe a song about an egg as the main person.<\/p>\n\n

It\u2019s also a natural thing. Once you finish an album, you\u2019re so excited to do the complete opposite of whatever that record was about. Rarely are you ready to use the same instruments, same themes, same chords. You want a new approach, something exciting. Getting out of the way also means being taken by inspiration and curiosity. You get out of the way and put curiosity in the driver\u2019s seat.<\/span><\/p>\n\n

You\u2019ve had a handful of long-term collaborative partners. What\u2019s allowed for this longevity?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

When you\u2019re around people that you admire, respect, and look up to, we want to impress them. It helps us. It sharpens us. This applies to any friendship or partnership in our lives. These people challenge us by being so inspiring. We\u2019re not complacent in those kinds of relationships.<\/span><\/p>\n\n

Writing is so solitary. Andy Cabic (Vetiver) is one of the few people where we can get together, have a conversation with instruments, and for some reason, we\u2019re not mortified at the embarrassment of writing a song in front of another person. It is embarrassing, the amount of stuff that you have to go through in order to get to the good stuff.<\/span><\/p>\n\n

When you\u2019ve got a few friends you can talk about writing songs with, it\u2019s so valuable. You\u2019re speaking a particular language that you don\u2019t speak with everyone. It just feels like I\u2019m part of something, part of a community. Other than that, it\u2019s a lonely, solitary thing. In the words of Sigrid Nunez, every writer walks around with a banner that just says loneliness. I love that line, it\u2019s true.<\/p>\n\n

What\u2019s different when working with someone you have personal history with vs only knowing one another via your work?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

All of it has its own novelty. It\u2019s all exotic to me because 90% of my work is done alone. Andy will say \u201cYeah, I went down to LA and met with this songwriter. I didn\u2019t know him. My manager put it together and we just got in the room.\u201d To me, that\u2019s incredible. It\u2019s exotic, taboo. I should definitely challenge myself, try that out.<\/p>\n\n

Do you keep routines for creative work?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

I tend to put demands on myself. In my mind, I should finish a record every day. This is madness. That\u2019s totally unrealistic and very cruel. What I can do is write one line every day so that discipline is maintained even in the smallest bit. The more we\u2019re away from it, for me, this chasm starts to grow. Then I\u2019ll look, and it\u2019s so big and I\u2019m terrified of it. The idea of picking up the guitar, the pen or the paintbrush becomes terrifying. That\u2019s a real thing that can happen to me if I spend too much time.<\/p>\n\n

If I give it space, then I\u2019m excited to get back to it. Typically, it\u2019s a night or two. If you let too much time go past, we\u2019ll find excuses to never do it again. It\u2019s scary when you start saying \u201cI\u2019ll get to that when I have time\u201d or \u201cif only.\u201d There\u2019s a million if onlys, and there\u2019s never any time. I\u2019ve never had time.<\/span> Those are the things to watch out for that consume me. I figured out how to make sure there is one little drop, just one line. Playing guitar for a moment. There\u2019s a feeling of, okay, I\u2019m still in touch with this thing. As I get older, it becomes scarier. It isn\u2019t like I understand music. I don\u2019t understand. I thought at this age, I would totally get it, that I\u2019d understand music fully. The guitar? Every time I play it is like, what are you? What is this thing?<\/p>\n\n

How does clothing impact confidence on stage?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

I\u2019m very sensitive to that. I think everyone is. Wearing something you don\u2019t feel comfortable in affects how you\u2019re dealing with the world. It affects how you think about yourself. It\u2019s so powerful. I wonder if some people could give a shit and don\u2019t notice it, truly aren\u2019t affected by it. I hope there\u2019s some people that could care less. That\u2019s awesome, I love it. I\u2019m not one of those people, but you said confident. It\u2019s funny, this concept of honest humility.<\/p>\n\n

Genuine humility comes from compassion and self-love. You\u2019re not measuring yourself up to the rest of the world.<\/span> It\u2019s like the wave that sees the big wave and goes, ah, I wish I was that big wave. Then sees the little one and goes, aha, I\u2019m bigger than you. Always measuring yourself up. True humility is an expression of knowing you\u2019re part of the ocean, not the wave. Confidence is different from arrogance, but sometimes they look similar.<\/span> You see someone playing a show and it\u2019s an arrogant trip, we can tell. They\u2019re doing things that look confident, but in fact it\u2019s arrogance. Confidence is what we\u2019re trying to cultivate.<\/p>\n\n

We just did a tour with Hayden Pedigo. Hayden talks about stage fright every night. His hands are shaking, he\u2019s sweating, he can barely get on stage.He still struggles with it, but he gets on stage and he makes that point. If anybody else feels like, how do people do this? He\u2019s showing you that you just do it, but it\u2019s still terrifying and you do it until it\u2019s not so scary. Talking about being frightened on stage makes him the most courageous person I\u2019ve ever seen play. That\u2019s confidence cultivated from compassion. This is a total tangent, because that\u2019s not what you were asking me.<\/p>\n\n

It\u2019s okay.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

What we wear is going to affect us so much. When I think about this last tour, the moment I\u2019m most proud of was the last show in Vancouver. I wore a brown, corduroy mini skirt and a cashmere sweater. My mini skirt felt sexy. I could feel the wind going up my butt crack. It felt great. Then the show\u2019s over. I take off my sweater. Then it\u2019s like, oh shit, people are still there, let\u2019s play another song. I played in just the mini skirt, no shirt, and was basically naked. It was so fucking fun. I don\u2019t even know why that felt so good. Maybe it\u2019s that childlike play. Here I am, that\u2019s it.<\/span> I\u2019m naked in front of y\u2019all and I\u2019m jumping around. A wild experience that certainly was a little frightening, too.<\/p>\n\n

\n\n

Devendra Banhart Recommends:<\/strong>
<\/p>\n\n

Hoarders<\/i><\/a> by Kate Durbin<\/a> \u2014 This is one of the most interesting collection of poems i\u2019ve read in a long time. It\u2019s an incredibly dynamic read, shifting between the intimate and clearly downplayed admissions of the \u201cHoarders\u201d and the crystal clear poetic scrutinizations of Durbin make for an incredibly unique and dynamic read. I no joke wept and laughed out loud to many of these, totally brilliant. (I gotta give Cate Le Bon<\/a> credit for seeing it and knowing I would love it!)
<\/p>\n\n

Unseen Beings<\/i><\/a> by Erik Jampa Andersson<\/a> \u2014 This is one of those books I want everyone to read and at the same time don\u2019t want to share with anyone ! It\u2019s so special\u2026A reminder that I\u2019m not insane when I talk to trees\u2026
<\/p>\n\n

Kate<\/i> by Kate Berlant<\/a> \u2014 There\u2019s a few days left of its run at the Pasadena Playhouse, get a ticket NOW, or wait till it tours it again, in the meantime, PRAY that it does! This is easily the best play (is it a play? It\u2019s certainly a play\u2026but it\u2019s also so much MORE!!!) I have ever seen. Truly.
<\/p>\n\n

Pharoah<\/i> by Pharoah Sanders<\/a> \u2014 I\u2019ve had to listen to this on Youtube for years as it just hasn\u2019t been available. Thank you, Luaka Bop, for this much deserved and needed reissue. I listen to Harvest Time on repeat for hours and hours\u2026.. extremely inspiring.
<\/p>\n\n

Sylvester - Private Recordings August 1970<\/i><\/a> \u2014 A tender and oh so romantic collection of the legendary Sylvester singing classic show tunes. Strikingly intimate. Every time I put this on, I think someone is at the door but it\u2019s just Sylvesters foot tapping to the music\u2026a must for fans of sentimental elegance and peacock feathers.
<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

This post was originally published on The Creative Independent<\/a>. <\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Many people who make creative work cite the importance of getting out of your own way. Have you developed healthy ways to do this over time?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4849,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[268,346],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1542469"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4849"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1542469"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1542469\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1542470,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1542469\/revisions\/1542470"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1542469"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1542469"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1542469"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}