{"id":7477,"date":"2021-01-13T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2021-01-13T08:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.radiofree.org\/?p=149333"},"modified":"2021-01-13T08:00:00","modified_gmt":"2021-01-13T08:00:00","slug":"artists-and-chefs-hannah-black-and-carla-perez-gallardo-on-how-failure-is-fluid","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/2021\/01\/13\/artists-and-chefs-hannah-black-and-carla-perez-gallardo-on-how-failure-is-fluid\/","title":{"rendered":"Artists and chefs Hannah Black and Carla Perez-Gallardo on how failure is fluid"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\n Artists and chefs Hannah Black and Carla Perez-Gallardo on the ongoing process of collaboration, breaking down binaries, and being playful while taking what you do seriously.
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Your creative work revolves around your restaurant Lil\u2019 Deb\u2019s Oasis.<\/a> What has the journey been like from studying art to eventually working with food as your primary medium?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hannah Black: I can definitely say that it was a long path to food as my medium.<\/span> I studied painting because that\u2019s what I always did. Once I got to art school, I fell in love with my community and wanted to be around people. There was always someone to talk to or riff with or share an idea with. Once school ended I realized I didn\u2019t get excited going and sitting alone in my studio. I really liked working around and with other people. I was also wanting to push beyond just one sensory experience. Food, then ultimately a restaurant space, touches every single point of your senses. I think that\u2019s really exciting\u2014from the music, to the smells, to the tastes, to the tactile and visual elements. Most importantly, [a restaurant space] can affect people who maybe are just coming for food, and they don\u2019t really know. I feel like the audience is wider in a restaurant space.<\/span><\/p>\n

Carla Perez-Gallardo: I always knew I was an artist, but never really felt like I could express myself while I was a painter. I was drawn to trying to self-express through mark making, but it always felt not enough, or insufficient, or like my message couldn\u2019t come across. It always felt stuck inside of the medium or something. It wasn\u2019t until I started exploring performance and installation, where it was so much more about layering different forms of expression on top of each other in order to arrive at some sort of message, that I started to feel like there was potential. Food is also that. In restaurants specifically, because there\u2019s concepting, there\u2019s actual language that you\u2019re playing with, there\u2019s the visual, and the sonic\u2014all of those things feel like they have so much space to breathe. I think especially in the space that we\u2019ve made, it was so much about letting ourselves have a voice that hadn\u2019t felt possible in other spaces.<\/span> I think the points of connection are definitely there between painting and installation or performance and restaurants. My path to arriving there was definitely one of, the medium doesn\u2019t hold what I want it to hold for me.<\/em><\/p>\n

How do you work through challenges as they come up in your collaboration?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CP-G: It\u2019s been a growing evolution. We used to work together, really guiding everything from start to finish holding hands. That\u2019s had to change as the restaurant has grown, but there are still elements of that. I did improv growing up, so \u201cyes, and\u2026\u201d is uncomfortable familiar territory, one that I think is really valuable and hard. It\u2019s hard to be in a place of \u201cyes, and\u2026\u201d all the time. I think our nature is often to try to resist or close off to things, especially if they aren\u2019t born from you, but saying \u201cyes, and\u2026\u201d is a really healthy framework for collaboration. It\u2019s something that I\u2019ve gotten better at in working collaboratively with Hannah and with everyone at the space, because so much of the energy is about sharing ideas. In an effort to be Covid-friendly when we pivoted from indoor dining to outdoor dining, Lil\u2019 Deb\u2019s Oasis turned into Fuego 69, which was an outdoor woodfire-grilled hippie pescatarian concept. When we tried to move back inside for indoor dining it turned into Cl\u00fcb 69, and we made a plywood wall around our bar and cut windows in it. The founding concepts for that were glory holes, medevial castles, and sex dungeons. It all stemmed from, \u201cWhy can\u2019t we just have wine windows like in medieval times?\u201d and Hannah and [manager, partner, and wine guy] Wheeler thought, \u201cyes, and\u2026\u201d and a whole idea was born, you know?<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: We both have the capacity to work on menus on our own, but I feel the best ones are when we actually sit down and question something that someone else brought up, and just think, \u201cI don\u2019t know, this doesn\u2019t feel quite right or succinct, or there\u2019s something off about it.\u201d Then sometimes we have to knock things down entirely to build them back up together. I think that\u2019s when the most interesting things come out.<\/span><\/p>\n

CP-G: Because we are so often collaborating, it\u2019s become easier to be like \u201cI don\u2019t like this idea because\u2026\u201d and then that actually leads to a better idea, rather than it feeling like a dead end somewhere.<\/span> Sometimes [working] alone feels harder with how to get an idea to move from point A to point B or even recognize that it needs to move. I think the space of closeness is an important one in being critical of each other and of our own ideas and knowing how to not let them rest \u2018til they\u2019re ready to rest. That said, we have plenty of half-formed ideas that also get somewhere and flail around.<\/p>\n

What\u2019s your relationship to play?<\/strong><\/p>\n

HB: Play is so important. You have to block off a criticality of yourself and just be free when you\u2019re playing, and I think that allows room for some of the best ideas to come forth. It\u2019s just taking a moment and focusing on letting ideas flow, playing with the material.<\/span><\/p>\n

CP-G: I think the best kind of play is improvised, when you aren\u2019t really structuring it or have an end goal in mind and it just kind of is moving and flowing. I think the way that we\u2019ve kept our innocence is through play. We\u2019ve always talked about this fine line between being serious and not serious, and the ways that the world looks at us, I think, is often through a confused lens. They don\u2019t know quite how to take us because we don\u2019t land somewhere. I feel like so many people are looking for something to land in a serious place or a place of irony or somewhere that feels distinct, and I think so much of our playfulness blurs the lines constantly and that feels really important.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: This is a playful place from the moment you walk in, it\u2019s perhaps a little overwhelming and in your face. To Carla\u2019s point, we also want to be respected for what we\u2019re creating and be taken seriously. It\u2019s a fine line with not taking ourselves too seriously, while also being serious about what we\u2019re doing.<\/span><\/p>\n

How does duality play out in your work together?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CP-G: Duality is an interesting word, and I immediately think of binary-ness, and just am wondering where those things connect, or how they are different from each other. I feel like ultimately there is duality, but I also think the restaurant itself is so much more about multiplicity.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: We try really hard to keep those boundaries fluid, the boundaries between front of house and back of house, the boundaries between me and Carla as a creative think tank and everyone else around us<\/span>, so it\u2019s not so divided that way.<\/p>\n

CP-G: I feel like the restaurant\u2019s like a giant Venn diagram. In fifth grade in Waldorf you learn geometry, and the reason why they teach you geometry at around that age, 12 or so, is because in that developmental stage you\u2019re learning to identify yourself in connection to the world around you. The drawing of geometry is so much about these forms overlapping and expanding and being repeated patterns of themselves, but in an infinite way. So in Waldorf world, maybe the first shape you start with represents the self, and all the other shapes represent the universe and the infinite. I think about that in terms of the way I want to think about the restaurant, which is that it starts with a simple shape or an inward moment, but it has the potential to expand infinitely, or it has all of these points of overlap, and all of these dots that represent different people and different instances and different ideas. We want the experience to be like a universe in which there\u2019s multiple voices and plurality, spinning around interconnectedly.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: But the duality word isn\u2019t wrong, because there is a lot of that in this industry, in this business, in this world. We try to consciously be aware of that and also break that down. Sometimes that\u2019s not that easy to do.<\/p>\n

What have been the most valuable resources to you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CP-G: Community, hands down, there\u2019s no way we\u2019d be where we are without a million other people.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: They encourage us and push us forward.<\/p>\n

CP-G: And they\u2019ll literally just show up to make things happen. I think that one of the coolest expressions of this [collaboration] is that it started from us being like \u201cWe have an idea,\u201d but in order to get from the idea to the reality or the manifestation of the idea, it has involved so many hands in so many places and so many people really showing up to make it physically possible.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: Our original intention in opening it was that it wouldn\u2019t just be a restaurant, it would be a community space, and our vision was to create this platform that we could collaborate and bring in many people that we were excited to work with. Hudson has such a beautiful creative community, so it was pretty easy to draw upon those resources. I think that because of that, there\u2019s a lot of people who feel at home here. They feel a part of this family and the restaurant, even if they don\u2019t work here, they feel safe here, comfortable here, they feel like it\u2019s their space, and I think that\u2019s really important.<\/p>\n

CP-G: It was the intention and there are days where I feel really proud and I understand that there\u2019s a deep function of community around us. There are also times when I feel like we failed, and times that I wish there was more room for community within the space of the restaurant industry. I think that that\u2019s a really hard balance, and one that I\u2019ve felt consistently impacted by, the pull of the industry standard or profitability and capitalism and the way that that really interferes with community in the true sense.<\/span> When we opened we definitely had a lot of other goals for what the space could look like and how it could be used and what kind of activities could happen here, but then you get so caught up in the maintenance of the everyday and making ends meet and the bottom line and all of these things that never once in concepting the restaurant or imagining my life would I have built into my language about what I wanted to be oriented around. I don\u2019t identify as someone who cares about the bottom line, but in becoming a business owner, not just an artist, and [thinking about] the ways in which being an artist is also having a business, those things feel in conflict sometimes.<\/span> Sometimes I wish I could step back and be like, \u201cWhat would it be like if we just served soup and salad and had art shows?\u201d<\/p>\n

HB: It\u2019s definitely a fine line juggling what you know sells, what makes money, how much you can charge for something and what you feel good about doing. You have to make sacrifices, where maybe we\u2019ll have some conceptual idea about some meal, but then sometimes people are just coming here, again, to eat, or they don\u2019t really\u2026<\/p>\n

CP-G: They don\u2019t really want to fuck with our ideas.<\/p>\n

How do you think about failure?<\/strong><\/p>\n

HB: I don\u2019t know if failure is something that I think about that much or dwell on.<\/span> I think I maybe have an optimistic outlook on most things, and it\u2019s like, if the business fails, I don\u2019t think that we\u2019ve failed as business owners. When you are negatively affecting other people or if we let our community down, or we let our families down or our friends down\u2014that, to me, is failure. Everything else is just hopefully, in the grand story of things, a mistake that leads to a learning process. The word \u201cfailure\u201d feels final. I think that\u2019s maybe why I just struggle with that idea or concept. Right now we\u2019re in a hard point with our business, and it\u2019s like \u201cWhat happens if we can\u2019t make it through this winter?\u201d Which is a reality that we\u2019re grappling with. Are we failures? Did we fail in this school of business that we\u2019re in?<\/span> I think it would be sad, it would be hard, but I think that we\u2019ve created something that we can grow from.<\/p>\n

CP-G: I think my relationship to failure is more internal. I more often feel like I\u2019ve failed myself. Sometimes that\u2019s relational\u2014sometimes I think I\u2019ve failed myself and that relates to how I haven\u2019t met someone\u2019s needs. I also relate to what Hannah is saying, in that I don\u2019t want to sit there and be like, \u201cI have failed\u201d and just stew and wallow in it, but rather look around and be like, \u201cHow did I get here? Why is this a failure and what can I learn from it?\u201d<\/span> and rise up again. Over the last two years especially, we\u2019ve had a lot of moments with our staff in particular where we were like, \u201cWell, we let them down in these ways, they clearly are feeling disappointed or frustrated. What have we failed to communicate or what have we not seen that led to an unmet need?\u201d I think failure is fluid and is often read as an ending or the arrival, or something is failing and then you start over. I feel like failure for us is more about moving through something, and not the endpoint.<\/span><\/p>\n

How are you doing in the midst of so much uncertainty?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CP-G: It\u2019s been a rough road, especially in the last couple of months, but I will say that uncertainty doesn\u2019t feel unfamiliar. As a restaurant we have really cornered uncertainty. From the beginning, I feel like there was a lot of doubt from the outside. There was a ton of support when we opened, but also some, \u201cWhat the hell are you thinking?\u201d and [people naming] all of these arbitrary reasons for why we could or might fail. I think we have felt certain in the space of others\u2019 uncertainty that our way could work.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: We\u2019ve had a few road bumps along the way. This isn\u2019t the worst situation that we\u2019ve been in financially. We had a lot of bold, blind faith that in hindsight could easily boil down to some naivet\u00e9. I feel like we\u2019ve faced a lot of moments of uncertainty, but I don\u2019t know if necessarily we have a lot of uncertainty within us, or we wouldn\u2019t be where we are.<\/span><\/p>\n

CP-G: Financially there was definitely naivet\u00e9 in being like, \u201cWhatever, we\u2019ll open and it doesn\u2019t matter if we have no money,\u201d and in so many ways it worked but it also meant that we had to stop several times to be like, \u201cHow long can we do it like this? Do we actually need more money?\u201d Money and certainty are related, too, if uncertainty relates to insecurity and money relates to security and all those things are connected in capitalism. I think our deepest moments of uncertainty have revolved less around our own motivation or our own clarity of what we want to be doing versus circumstantial uncertainty around money or Covid. The pandemic has definitely been the most uncertain time I\u2019ve experienced as an adult. There\u2019s a constant sense of \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d but there is no one that can tell you, and your own compass doesn\u2019t matter anymore. I think that that\u2019s been the most destabilizing thing. Even if I have a sense of clarity around myself or my actions or my means or my desires, they don\u2019t have a lot of room right now to move and manifest.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: It\u2019s exhausting, because we\u2019ve tried really hard to overcome what\u2019s going on [with the pandemic], pivot, have a new idea, have fun, and play. It feels almost like year one again, but we\u2019re older and more tired.<\/span><\/p>\n

What would you offer to younger artists or your younger selves?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CP-G: I think so much about being a young person is self-doubt and wondering and anticipation for what will be.<\/span> When I think back and imagine all the places that I\u2019ve been in my life, though I have been someone who has been fairly centered in myself, of course there have been through-lines of doubt about how to be my best self or what my version of being myself even looks. Trust feels so central to just letting yourself become.<\/span> When I look back there was a certain level of trust I had to have in not trying to fit in, I think because of the way I was always like, \u201cYeah, I\u2019m a weirdo, yeah, I\u2019m an artist.\u201d Like I said, I could never make a mark that felt true to me, and then doubt comes in that\u2019s like, \u201cWell, if you can\u2019t express yourself, will you ever be what you want to be?\u201d I let myself just meander and try all the things and and cook and then not cook and then be an artist and then not be an artist. I don\u2019t know how much trust I had in the process in those moments, but I think what I\u2019m getting at is trust more.<\/span><\/p>\n

HB: I do think when you\u2019re younger the desire for self-definition is more important<\/span>, especially when you\u2019re in high school and you don\u2019t have a choice of where you are. I feel like I had a similar experience where I just didn\u2019t feel like I fit in, was uncomfortable in general, and then therefore self-defined myself as an artsy weirdo and excluded myself from other people. I had this thought of, \u201cBefore you\u2019re going to judge me, I\u2019m going to judge you, and the line is drawn.\u201d Now looking back, everyone is so involved in their own shit that it doesn\u2019t really matter. I wish I had a little less self-judgment at that point.<\/p>\n

CP-G: Also what comes up for me is the idea of arriving. I think as a young person you\u2019re always looking to arrive somewhere, you\u2019re looking to arrive at adulthood or arrive at being a teenager, arrive at self-ness, or some identity. You\u2019re just always arriving and never arriving and that\u2019s something I feel pretty solid in right now. I think I\u2019m much more aware that we\u2019re always evolving, and in that sense we\u2019re always on the path to somewhere and probably will never get there, or will have moments of having been there and then moments of moving through and looking back.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Hannah Black and Carla Perez-Gallardo Recommend:
<\/strong><\/p>\n

Chinese Protest Recipes<\/em> by @thegodofcookery<\/a><\/p>\n

Raw honey + crushed aspirin face masks (introduced to us by our friend Kelly Crimmins \"?\" helps subdue puffiness, a necessary tool these days!<\/p>\n

Trying to find pleasure in even the smallest of gestures: i.e. repairing a torn shirt or taking a bath in the afternoon.<\/p>\n

Literally please read your own tarot when you need some guidance, just pull a card or 3! this never fails to center you when you\u2019re feeling lost.<\/p>\n

Spending all day cooking a meal for someone you love and doing the dishes as you go along.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n\n

This post was originally published on Radio Free<\/a>. <\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Artists and chefs Hannah Black and Carla Perez-Gallardo on the ongoing process of collaboration, breaking down binaries, and being playful while taking what you do seriously. Your creative\u2026<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":674,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[268,401,4],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7477"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/674"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7477"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7477\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":7478,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7477\/revisions\/7478"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7477"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7477"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/radiofree.asia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7477"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}